Trump didn't openly extort Zelensky. He simply made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Le Chef is the only Trump supporter left on this thread. He is all alone. The rest have quit. The reality of Trump is not their long suit.

    That should tell Le Chef something.

    But it won't.
     
  2. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then why not ignore me as a lost cause? The answer is that you are hungry for my attention and approval. There is no other coherent explanation. You shouldn't worry about what I think. Think for yourself.

    I'm disappointed to read that you measure the validity of a view by its popularity. I vote Libertarian, but my view on Trump in the Ukraine issue is about the same as that of Jeff Van Drew, the only Democrat with the guts to stand up to your mob.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.es...crats-impeachment-donald-trump-bill-pascrell/

    Finally, I doubt you have converted any Trump supporters with your posts, so don't assume that their refusal to respond to your posts mean anything. They probably have jobs or just find your posts uninteresting.
     
  3. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You didn't really quote yourself there, did you? Tell me you didn't do that.
     
  4. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    41,176
    Likes Received:
    4,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What are these other calls that you refer to?
     
  5. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    42,517
    Likes Received:
    18,642
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We shall see what is in the secret server, which has already been subpoenaed.
     
  6. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    41,176
    Likes Received:
    4,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It will be every call with every leader that he has spoken to.
     
    Le Chef likes this.
  7. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Will the subpoena be enforced? (maybe, maybe not). Will "we" see any part of any of those calls? Maybe we will, maybe we won't. When is the last time the House successfully forced a White House to disclose contents of diplomatic phone calls which were in turn paraded in front of the public? I doubt even Kagan or Ginsburg would vote to force a President to do that.

    There's a lot that has to happen (and not happen) before even Congress gets to see it, never mind us. And it might take years. The U.S. Attorney for D.C. (not Bill Barr) could drag his feet enforcing it. If he moves forward, privileges will be invoked. Then off they go to court.

    By the time there is a final ruling, Trump may have been defeated and Congress will lose motivation. Or R's could retake the House (in theory, not next year) and withdraw the subpoena.

    More here:
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/congres...ve-privilege-coming-showdown-between-branches
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
    chris155au likes this.
  8. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    41,176
    Likes Received:
    4,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Enforcing what?

    As in defeated in the 2020 election?
     
  9. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    45,406
    Likes Received:
    26,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The WH narrative about the transcript has changed. It originally was that it was a summary closely tracking the conversation. Now Individual 1 claims it is a word for word transcript.

    "Current and former U.S. officials studying the document pointed to several elements that, they say, indicate that the document may have been handled in an unusual way.

    Those include the use of ellipses — punctuation indicating that information has been deleted for clarity or other reasons — that traditionally have not appeared in summaries of presidential calls with foreign leaders, according to the current and former officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the elaborate, non-public process."
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...s-about-rough-transcript-trumps-ukraine-call/
     
  10. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Enforcing the subpoena, if ignored. It's just a piece of paper, after all, and they are ignored all the time, until some armed muscle shows up to compel compliance. Now, no marshals are going to go to the White House to force turnovernif some server (where is it, exactly?) But the U.S. Attorney for the DC circuit could move for an order from a district court commanding compliance. That again would just be a piece of paper with "order" written at the top. But I think that if that too were ignored, on order of the chief executive, you'd see mass resignations. But I think we are years away from that.


    Yes, I mean defeated in 2020. I would bet $10.00, but not $20.00, that either Biden or Warren will win in 2020, probably Biden. The mob is growing, and you can't reason with a mob. And I think a few more independents than not are tired of the daily drama and will be ready for a nice, "sleepy" Joe.
     
    chris155au likes this.
  11. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I forgot to mention another step. The house would need to schedule and vote on a contempt citation against ... somebody ... maybe the White House chief of staff, for failing to physically open the basement room in the White House to to allow seizure of this server, which supposedly has all this evidence of malfeasance, before they'll get an order to compel appliance with the subpoena. Does anyone seriously expect that to happen?

    Another funny wrinkle is that the U.S. Attorney for the DC circuit who would need to be on board with this rigmarole works for ...
    Anyone? Bueller?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1SC1YE

    God forbid we just let both sides scream "treason!" at each other and let the voters decide to replace Trump, or not.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  12. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    13,482
    Likes Received:
    9,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Just the ones his staff decided should never see the light of day. Which could be all of them. He really is that ignorant.
     
  13. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    41,176
    Likes Received:
    4,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He still works for Mueller?
     
  14. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    41,176
    Likes Received:
    4,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Which is all of them. So this rules out the possibility of this call getting some sort of special treatment.
     
  15. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    13,482
    Likes Received:
    9,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Mueller is retired, no one works for him.
     
  16. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    41,176
    Likes Received:
    4,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well that's what I thought.
     
  17. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
  18. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    41,176
    Likes Received:
    4,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  19. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I mentioned Bueller, with a B, referencing a movie, Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

     
    chris155au likes this.
  20. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    41,176
    Likes Received:
    4,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh right! I read it as a B but I thought that you meant Mueller! So what are you saying that the U.S. Attorney for the DC circuit works for?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
  21. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All U.S. attorneys are political appointees of the President and can be fired at will. (Their actual employer is the United States of America.)

    Anyway, that's why they either get fired or resign (like Elliott Richardson during Watergate) if pressured by the WH to do something they feel is unlawful or even unethical or distasteful.

    But I'm not at all sure that her enforcement of a congressional subpoena against the White House would even be resisted by Trump. After all, there may be nothing to hide, and if there is, he is in kind of a "Bring it" mood lately and may release the stuff even if it IS damaging. He's on live TV openly calling in China to investigate the Bidens.

    FYI, the US attorney in DC is a woman named Jessie Liu, I think is the spelling. Harvard, Yale, courtroom experience. I bet she's hard as nails. Prosecuted lots of Colombian dope dealers.

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/meet-us-attorney
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
  22. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    41,176
    Likes Received:
    4,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why do you mention that?
     
  23. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My point is that since he is that open about what he wants from foreign leaders relative to Joe Biden, then he is all the less likely in my opinion to resist a subpoena for all this other juicy, incriminatimg stuff he supposedly has on the classified server.

    There may even be stuff on there that's either embarrassing to Democrats or which casts Trump in a positive light.

    If I were in his position, AND if there were nothing compromising on the secret server, I'd fight it all the way to the Supreme Court, then waive privileges at the last minute and release it all to the salivating press and to Rep. Schiff. You know about Geraldo and Jimmy Hoffa's vault? Funniest thing in history, though I actually like Geraldo and felt bad for him.
     
  24. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    45,406
    Likes Received:
    26,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A picture (or a cartoon) says a thousan............................

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    10,688
    Likes Received:
    3,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is what a Congressional subpoena looks like, by the way. Exciting, isn't it? Notice that the "To: ____" line at the top. They are usually directed to the head of the department that has custody of the document, like the secretary of education or energy, whatever.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/NdtwVtFALUCFzpc99

    I am very curious as to the name that appears in that line in the subpoena that just went to the White House, if anyone knows. I am guessing that Acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph (?) McGuire's name is on it.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...-not-exact-heres-how-it-works/?outputType=amp
     
    chris155au likes this.

Share This Page