Trump ended the rule blocking mentally ill people from getting guns.

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by JakeStarkey, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    27,443
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh pff.. you can go use a crossbow or even a knife. A riffle is just the typical weapon,... just like soldiers use a rifle as well. They aint going at it in Afghanistan with all handguns. All this is, is just nitpicking away when the argument is lost.
     
  2. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    6,406
    Likes Received:
    4,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Got nothing? I have reason, logic and knowledge of firearms (weapons in general), none of which you have demonstrated.
    Btw, your hyping of ARs and AKs as weapons of mass destruction is nothing short of misleading hyperbole when compared to reality. More people are killed annually by knives than all rifles combined, much less the subcategory of ARs or AKs. For example, here’s 2017 stats

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

    As for those killed in mass shootings, the MSM would have you believe the numbers are vastly higher than reality. Don’t believe me? here’s a Prime MSM source on this year’s tally...

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/deadly-mass-shootings-month-2019/story?id=63449799
    Then too, looking at the instances, how many were done with ARs or AKs?

    There is perception and there is reality.
     
  3. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    6,406
    Likes Received:
    4,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No argument is lost. If you think that you aren’t living in reality. What color are the unicorn horns where you live?
     
  4. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,276
    Likes Received:
    7,129
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then why are such firearms ultimately the most commonly owned firearms in the united states, if the vast majority simply does not want them? Economic factors should have resulted in the fall of the AR-15 and other similar firearms going by the wayside, rather than every single firearm manufacturer introducing their own copy to the market for purchase.
     
  5. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,276
    Likes Received:
    7,129
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One in a confined area filled with individuals who did not even have the sense to escape when the killer had to stop and consult a video on how to fix his firearm, and one from atop a hotel into another confined area filled with individuals who did not understand they were being shot.

    Outside of those two specific incidents, in specific circumstances, all other mass shootings, even the ones committed with semi-automatic rifles, have paled in comparison to the Virginia Tech incident, which was committed with two handguns.

    The "so what" in this particular case, is that there is no legal standpoint under which the AR-15 and other similar rifles can be restricted and removed on the basis of their use in the commission of crimes, simply because they are commonly owned by the public for legal and legitimate uses. Handguns are used far more often in far more murders and other crimes than all other firearms in existence, and the united state supreme court has stated that is still not good enough for a prohibition on their legal ownership.

    And yet it remains nothing more than one more opinion piece of a proverbial sea of opinion pieces.

    Except for the fact that such is actually done.

    https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2018/1/10/a-beginners-guide-to-handgun-hunting/

    https://www.outdoorlife.com/article...ear-cartridges-and-tips-you-need-get-started/

    From a legal standpoint, it makes no difference. Find a standard codified into law that would suggest otherwise.

    Then remove the specific individuals who are misusing firearms against the public. Identify them, find them, remove them. Their constitutional rights do not extend to harming others.
     
    Jarlaxle likes this.
  6. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    8,339
    Likes Received:
    174
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yes, he is. He is 100% fine with ending due process for the "wrong" people.
     
  7. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    27,443
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Trophy Points:
    113


    I'm discussing mass shootings, not all killings. You're moving the goalpost. And that hyperbole is also yours.

    I just sourced that the biggest mass shootings are predominantly done with AK kind of weapons.
     
  8. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    27,443
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You really got nothing. lol
     
  9. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    27,443
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm not interested in that question. I'm interested in stopping mass murders.
     
  10. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    6,406
    Likes Received:
    4,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Don’t need much with you. Already exposed you. But, feel free to continue...lots of rope available.
     
  11. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    27,443
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My point is that the bigger mass murders are dominated with AK's. And you're not disputing this.

    .
    My source has stated far more examples than just 2. It shows the bigger massacres are dominated with AK kind of weapons.


    Putting more gun control has nothing to do with how popular a weapon is. It's not as if... 1 person in the country has this weapon so it's easy to ban it.
    My last source aint an opinion piece.
    It aint the norm. Soldiers don't go in blazing with a handgun. Deal with it.

    Full auto has been made into a difference. And so... so can semi.

    So you're claim now is that cops are not doing a good job. lol
    That's insane. The problem is guns are all over the place, and any idiot can have whatever firepower it needs to commit a massacre, and so it happens. There is no thought control in store for the police, by the way. Your idea is unrealistic.
     
  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    27,443
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh no... I "exposed you" so much more plus one...
    :roll:
     
  13. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    85,376
    Likes Received:
    10,531
    Trophy Points:
    113
  14. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,276
    Likes Received:
    7,129
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because attempting to do such ultimately undermines the established position on the part of yourself, and demonstrates a lack of understanding of basic economics.

    Obsessively focusing on a particular implement, while choosing to deliberately ignore the more pertinent, more relevant factors involved, will not serve to accomplish such a goal. It is not the implement that is forcing mass murders to occur, or otherwise making them possible to achieve, or even making them noteworthy. The issue pertains to the public, and the individuals that are found within it. Until such time there is a willingness to discuss and address that factor, no change will ever come about.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  15. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,276
    Likes Received:
    7,129
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nothing changes the fact they are rare, isolated incidents, with far more mass shootings being committed with handguns rather than rifles. Even if semi-automatic rifles could be removed from the equation, the majority of mass shootings in the united states would not cease as a result. They would continue unabated, and eventually the largest mass shootings in history would be committed with handguns since there would be no other alternatives. Incidents as big as Virginia Tech or bigger would still be achieved, and there would be nothing that could be done about such a fact.

    And what difference does such ultimately make? Is it being argued the massacres would not have been committed otherwise, if semi-automatic rifles simply did not exist?

    Attempting to restrict the legal ownership of such firearms will not do anything to stop their illegal misuse.

    Such is the opinion of yourself.

    Pray tell, what exactly is the "norm" that is being referred to on the part of yourself? Explain such.

    Not all soldiers are issued rifles, however. There are indeed personnel who are only issued a sidearm and nothing else for general duty.

    Fully-automatic firearms were restricted before they were subject to widespread ownership. There are well over ten millionAR-15 rifles already in private ownership and circulation. The two standards are not in any way comparable to one another.

    Did law enforcement do its job in the Parkland incident?

    So now the claim on the part of yourself has ultimately morphed into one of it being the fault of the firearms for the commission of mass shootings, rather than the individuals who are responsible for pulling the trigger. The availability of firearms ultimately forced them to engage in mass shootings they otherwise would not have, had all other factors been the same.

    Such is ultimately what the claim on the part of yourself amounts to. Firearms have always been widely available in the united states, to anyone who wishes to have them, either legally or illegally. Mass shootings, by comparison, have not been widely common, and are a relatively recent phenomenon.
     
    An Taibhse likes this.
  16. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    27,443
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I sourced that and my point is .... THE BIGGEST mass shootings are dominated with semi automatic rifles.... :roll:
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  17. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    27,443
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No.. it's because you already lost that popularity vote. A very fast majority doesn't want all them AK's in the hands of civilians.

    And the public has expressed it's opinion. They do not want all them AK's. From left wing CNN to right wing Fox... the message is clear.
     
  18. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    27,443
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They happen as good as every day. The US stands out compared to all the other western nation to be firmly at the absolute bottom of the list. All you got is comparing the US to some drug invested corrupt fail states, to claim it aint "that bad". lol

    The other western nations are leading that way....

    Again... look at other western countries....
    The data is not an opinion.

    Oh... how about you claim it actually is totally normal that people go out and hunt with a pistol instead of a rifle.

    Oh, go kid yourself.
    upload_2019-9-16_19-31-7.jpeg


    so what. The point is... it can be done.

    That logic is successfully applied to full auto.
     
  19. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,276
    Likes Received:
    7,129
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then why are ultimately so many firearm manufacturers producing and selling firearms that the public has no interest in owning? Why are they investing millions of dollars in designing and constructing firearms for sale to the public in such large numbers, when the public is not interested? Such makes no sense from a logical, economic perspective.

    The message is not clear, as the message is "do something" without elaboration on what that something should actually be. The message is nothing but one of screaming, incoherent hysteria, being presented by those who are devoid of critical thinking skills and are barely anything more than wild animals.
     
  20. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,276
    Likes Received:
    7,129
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The united states is not a first world, developed nation. It does not get to claim to be one when it will make no effort to secure its borders, and is under constant invasion and infestation by hundreds of thousands of individuals pouring in from third world. The united states has more in common with the nation of Mexico, than it does the nation of Australia.

    It indeed is "normal" for individuals to hunt with a handgun rather than a rifle. It is a matter of personal, individual choices, based on their own level of skill.

    And yet such does not change the fact that not all personnel in the united states military are issued rifles. Those who are not assigned active combat details within a declared zone of war are issued sidearms rather than rifles, as there is no point in their carrying around the extra weight when they are not expected to engage in combat. Rarely are soldiers issued both simultaneously.

    To do such would ultimately require putting a complete and total end to the production of all semi-automatic rifles, ensuring that no new ones can be produced for sale to the private market. Such is a restriction on fully-automatic firearms, meaning the same restrictions and regulations cannot be extended to semi-automatic rifles without incurring significant harm to the united states economy in the process. If semi-automatic rifles were treated exactly like fully-automatic firearms, it would result in most if not all firearm manufacturers going out of business, resulting in tens of thousands more individuals finding themselves unemployed, in an economy where employment and jobs are not guaranteed.

    Except for the fact that it is not. Fully-automatic firearms are restricted, not on the basis of public safety, but for the purpose of taxation.
     
  21. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    85,376
    Likes Received:
    10,531
    Trophy Points:
    113
    VT massacre

    done with a Glock.
     
  22. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    27,443
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I already sourced you the public opinion on AK's. Hence I'm not interested in your questioning who wins this popularity contest. You lost it.

    The only people who are hysteric are the people who want to keep their massive weapons. We had a person of congress making death threats over it even.
     
  23. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    27,443
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh lol.... is this how you want to win the debate by claiming the US is just like any other narco state.

    whatever lol

    That's not the point. My point still stands that such AK type of weapons are the weapon of choice for sodliers to rage war, they are trained to do that with the weapon on semi. Hence it's an issue when civilians got that option too.... an issue since they commit massacres on other civilians with that. An issue because a whopping majority doesn't want that.

    The unemployment rate is low, so... who cares.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  24. DixNickson

    DixNickson Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,836
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Must be a "privacy" HIPPA consideration
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  25. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,276
    Likes Received:
    7,129
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is not even possible for yourself to actually have an open, honest, legitimate debate or discussion on this matter.

    Such as those who believe in protecting their constitutional rights in response to being treated like criminals for crimes they have not committed.

    And the state of California has congressional individuals who believe the use of nuclear weapons against firearm owners for noncompliance is a valid course of action.
     

Share This Page