Trump Ends Subsidies

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by CourtJester, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    It directly refuted the ignorant nonsense you keep posting.
     
  2. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The subsidies will continue.

    what will NOT continue, is the govt. reimbursement for those subsidies.

    unless Congress passes a law authorizing them.
     
  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    THE COMPARATIVE COST OF HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS

    Saving lots of money and making one of the already comparatively worst HealthCare systems on the planet (of any "developed nation") really helps the American people?

    You wanted numbers? Here are two studies on Healthcare Costs:
    *A ranking of Healthcare Systems by the Commonwealth Fund (the higher the number, the lower the ranking):
    [​IMG]

    *So now consider this - the cost of your Healthcare in the US is (per capita) twice as expensive as mine in France. But - and it is an important but - you have a likely lifespan that is four years less than mine:
    [​IMG] :

    Any thoughts about those hard facts ... ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, in lieu of the subsidies,what are the Insurance Companies going to do about HC-plan costs? Eat them?

    No way, José. YOU are going to pay the additional costs in your premiums!

    NB: But, not me, because I am a Yank who lives in France, which has a National Healthcare System at half the per capita cost of the US. Why half the cost. Because the NHS is the insurer and not blood-sucking insurance companies! And, which is important, the French NHS sets the prices of healthcare services - not the insurance companies or their hired-hands of the medical profession.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The cost of medical treatment in the US is in the aggregate about $6000 per person. And that aint free, gratis or for nothing.

    The cost is paid by someone somewhere. Healthcare is not "magic".

    So, explain yourself ...
     
  6. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    This is incoherent. Can you try again? What is it you are asking?
     
  7. petef56

    petef56 Well-Known Member

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    I respectfully refer you to my post #111 of this thread where it explains how YOU (the American people) benefit by me opting out.

    Sure, the healthcare system of the USA is broken, outrageously priced for products & services, and delivers less than satisfactory results. So how to fix it is the real challenge. Obviously, by the "hard facts" presented, throwing money at the problem is not the answer.

    That's why one very good solution is to change the system now such that those who can opt-out (for whatever reason) are able to opt-out. If enough people act quickly and follow suit by opting-out, the entire healthcare system will be forced to respond by lowering costs of products & services, offering more low cost options, and improving efficiency and effectiveness.

    All the above is why eliminating the mandate is so crucial to fixing the broken system.

    In my post# 111, I explained why me opting out would be such a huge cost savings for the average American who actually pays for their own healthcare and with no subsidies. The numbers I gave tell the truth and not one person has shown their own set of numbers that refute what I said, so I'm probably spot on.

    See what you can come up with. I have an open mind, especially if you can show an analysis using numbers & calculations to back your theory.

    --pete--
     
  8. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, it's no real challenge.

    The British have had a Universal Health care since the early 1950s, the rest of Europe since the 1970/80s. It is not only the best in the world, but the least expensive. And its coverage is more vast as regards population. The breakdown of healthcare coverage by percent of population is found here: List of countries by health insurance coverage

    Note that universal-coverage is 100% for all European Countries. Note that the US (at the bottom of the list) covers about 85% of the population. But at a total cost of US healthcare coverage nearly twice as costly per person as the EU coverage! (See infographic here.)

    We Yanks are wedded to an impossibly complicated and very expensive privatized health-insurance for no real reason whatsoever. Except the fact that ObamaCare was to be funded entirely by the government and the Replicants refused that evolution in 2010 because it would lower private-insurance costs (and therefore corporate revenues). So, he did the best he could based upon privatized insurance to enlarge insurance coverage.

    And, Donald Dork, because he hates Obama (probably because he understands that Obama is a better PotUS than he will ever be), wants to destroy it entirely - and frankly does not care what pops up in its place as long as the name is not called "ObamaCare".

    Yes, that's how trivial Donald Dork can get in his tiny, uniquely black-or-white world ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  9. petef56

    petef56 Well-Known Member

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    What the above suggests to me is that Europe is more aligned to socialism than the United States. Since the United States is known for it's freedom, liberty, wealth, and position as the World's leader, why should we veer off course to become as a socialist nation which will only bring us down. Anyone who has fallen into that socialist line of thinking has been fooled, or duped and is not thinking deep enough to see the big picture.

    In case you haven't noticed, the world is operating as a global marketplace now and the USA is not in good alignment with the rest of the world. In other words, the USA is at a higher level and their standard of living needs to be taken down a few notches so that it better fits in the global market place. (not my plan, but rather, the globalist socialist plans)

    So I ask you, what better tool to take America down a few notches than the Healthcare system?

    1.) First they (leftist socialist anti-Americans) set the laws and regulations such that the costs of healthcare related products & services are allowed to skyrocket.

    2.) Next the people can't possibly afford the outrageous costs and they need insurance for security.

    3.) Insurance costs then begin to skyrocket and the people themselves call out to government to provide for their healthcare.

    End result, the American standard of living is taken down a few notches, not through higher taxes, but by the higher healthcare premiums created by Obamacare. Make no mistake, this is what Obamacare is intended to do, but most people can't think deep enough to see it or even comprehend it, so they only look skin deep into the problem and never see the big picture.

    Bottom line, Trump not only sees the big picture, but he has a plan to reverse the anti-American socialist plans to lower our standard of living and get things back under control in the healthcare system.

    Rand Paul is also very astute on this topic of "rights to universal healthcare" and he's 100% correct that Obamacare is the road to slavery.

    Here's what Ran Paul has to say on the topic.


    My friend, LafayetteBis, if you have never thought about these things, I encourage you to think harder and deeper to hopefully see the big picture on a global scale. If you can see just a little bit of what talking about, ask yourself why haven't your sources of news and info talked about these things. Ask why are your sources pushing socialism when America became great operating as a capitalist nation. I believe that you are a person with good intentions, but perhaps your sources have led you down the narrow path to socialism that you seem to goin gtowards now.

    I sincerely appreciate all your statistics and I learned a few things from them as to how the USA ranks with other nations. All that I ask now is that you consider some of the aspects of healthcare that go beyond healthcare alone and contribute to a globalist socialist agenda.

    --pete--
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Explanation: You're the one who wrote "income having no relevance to the cost of treatment".

    Of course Income has relevance. It is the be-all and end-all of our existence.

    And when the Net-after-taxation Income becomes far, far too much lopsided because of a lack of taxation, then something is very, very wrong. The money goes up into Wealth and REMAINS THERE. It sits in a financial investments (often just government bonds) sustaining debt.

    But had the income been rightfully taxed at its source, then it could have been immediately been recycled into the economy for the better good of all.

    Like educating our young, or healthcare for all in a country that has gone berserk with obesity. Or investments in various means to better the lives of Americans in general. Believe me, the list is long ...
     
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, welcome to the Club of those who confuse the notion of what the word "socialism" means and how it is applied.

    Dictionary definition of socialism:
    A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

    Whereas Social Democracies believe in this (from here):
    Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, as well as a policy regime involving a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution and regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions. Social democracy thus aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater democratic, egalitarian and solidaristic outcomes; and is often associated with the set of socioeconomic policies that became prominent in Northern and Western Europe during the latter half of the 20th century.

    The two are fundamentally different, in particular as regards who owns what - which ultimately determines Income-and-Wealth outcomes in any market-economy ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  12. petef56

    petef56 Well-Known Member

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    I'd say you are splitting hairs over the word "socialist" & "socialism"and putting words in my mouth to make your point while totally missing or ignoring the points I made. Again I refer to my post #111 where the "social democratic" (to use your definition) system of Obamacare robs from YOU and gives to me with no incentive for me to raise myself up and that my friend is what will gradually destroy America like a cancer.

    So with all your statistics, it seems as if you are saying the cure for our failing healthcare system is Obamacare, correct? If that's true, as a low income household, I can't lose because YOU, (assuming you are mid-income) will be paying the majority of all my healthcare premiums via tax payer funded subsidies and anything costing more than $6000 in the form of extremely high healthcare plan premiums. Now we could argue back and forth as to what the proper name is for such a system, but why waste valuable time doing that. I will just say enough for now and THANK YOU for promoting a system (Obamacare) where YOU pay for the majority of my healthcare costs, simply because you make a higher income than me.

    Hey, it works for me, but if I were you, I'd be mad as hell.
    Thanks again for your generosity! :)

    --pete--
     
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As regards Healthcare of the nation, the subject is on the same level of understanding (and political importance) as Defense (of the nation). And yet, no one thinks for a moment that Defense should be privatized in nature. (It is sooooo important that 54% of all of the Federal Discretionary-Budget Spending is allocated to the DoD and more than 20% of that budget is allocated to "procurement" from private industry. See here.)

    But, oh-yes, that's not OK for Healthcare. As "public services" go, there is no distinction between the two. In fact, American law does not distinguish the nature of either when it comes to, say, retired people - for which Healthcare is provided by the US government.

    Howzat? Then (and only then), as regards our "oldies", Healthcare is part-'n-parcel a responsibility of Uncle Sam! Wow!

    Wot happind ... ?!?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  14. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    no. how much money YOU make, has no relevance at all to how much the care you receive actually costs.
     
  15. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Social democracy is just a kinder name for a fascist economic system

    Private ownership but government control and redistribution of the wealth
     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Only in the sense of whether I can afford it or not.

    Why do you think the rich Replicants don't give a damn about ObamaCare. They can afford even better care ...
     
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More one-liner sarcasm.

    Borinnnggggg ...
     
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, and so what?
     
  19. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    It was not sarcasm

    I summed up the democrat socialists so that even you can understand
     
  20. james M

    james M Banned

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    the facts are simple:
    1) America pays more for health care in part because it is richer and can afford to and,
    2) America's socialist health care system is much less efficient than Europes'

    Solution is to switch to capitalism so that prices would be lowered 80%.
     
  21. james M

    james M Banned

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    cost of care you receive in Niger is low because they make little money there. 1+1=2
     
  22. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    I was correcting the poster who claimed it did.
     
  23. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    I know conservatives suck at economics, but this is just hilarious.

    Lets substitute a TV, for healthcare. If you walk into best buy, and ask the price of a new 50" Sony, your income has no relevance to how much that TV costs.
     
  24. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are only two qualities that should prevail:
    *You are an American, and
    *You are indeed sick.

    That's what it comes down to in any country in the EU with a National Healthcare System to be attended to by a physician. And you wont be paying for some horrendously expensive Healthcare Insurance provided by an insurance company. (Or, if you work and covered, the cost of your insurance is not factored into the cost-of-production, and EVERYBODY pays it when purchasing the product/service provided to consumers!)

    The cost-of-living is too expensive? But you never thought that the average $8000/year cost of medical insurance was not a prime reason?

    Think again. Then understand why your GP is making (on average) $200K a year ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  25. Bear513

    Bear513 Banned

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    Once again no mention of value added tax? Quit lying..
     

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