Trump Had More Than 300 Classified Documents at Mar-a-Lago

Your wrong, he can possess his things he deemed personal. Take a couple notes that will probably be in play here. NARA is responsible to move the records to a place appropriate that's close to the library site, now you know why Obama's is in the warehouse close to his library. They are also responsible for personal papers that are planned for donation to the government! Keep in mind also that Presidential staff is responsible for filing things Personal or PRA, both are logged and stored with NARA while in office.

Things that need answered:
Did NARA approved the storage facility in Maralago?
Are/were the records there deemed personal and not going to be donated to the government?
Did NARA move the items to Maralago as they are charged with doing? If not why not?

See below from the link I provided directly from NARA guidelines to the President

Assisting in planning for and later managing the Presidential Library Throughout the Presidential Administration, NARA provides guidance on planning for the Presidential Library and the selection of the library site. The point of contact on any Library issues is the Executive for Legislative Archives, Presidential Libraries, and Museum Services. Traditionally, as the Administration draws to a close, NARA identifies appropriate space to temporarily house materials until the permanent Library is built. Planning and executing the move of Presidential materials at the end of the Administration to a location close to where the President will build the Presidential Library NARA is responsible for the planning and moving of all Presidential records and gifts, and any personal papers that are planned for donation to the government. NARA ensures physical and intellectual control over the records during their move from the White House complex to a NARA facility. On January 20th, NARA assumes legal custody of the Presidential records and gifts. NARA staffs and operates the temporary facility and later the Library.

 

Just to be clear, you had said that you expect that charges will be filed (which you say, here, you believe requires action by a judge), in Trump's case, but that no indictment will be issued (though, presumably, the judge who OK'd the filing of the charge, would also be amenable to indicting). You seem to be aiming your prediction, through a pretty narrow pass. And the reason behind your expectation, has nothing to do with the judge, or anything strictly legal, but just because you think that politically, this is what Democrats most want-- to be able to point to a charge being filed, yet without overly riling up the Trump base, by indicting, on that charge-- and so will pull strings, to achieve that result. I've gotta say Rod, that doesn't seem a likely scenario, to me. I, personally, think the decision on charges will need to be signed off on, by Garland. If, however, our AG decides to charge, I also believe that he is going to want to get an indictment. So the only way I can see your speculation coming to fruition, is through what I had initially thought to be your own reasoning: that prosecutors would be overruled by some particular judge (which your generously detailing of the legal process, for me, seems to argue against being a likely scenario).
For whatever my impression is worth.

 

GSA shipped them there and NARA knew they were they and left them there

I will repeat

The Trump Warrant Had No Legal Basis
A former president’s rights under the Presidential Records Act trump the statutes the FBI cited to justify the Mar-a-Lago raid.

...The warrant authorized the FBI to seize “all physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§793, 2071, or 1519” (emphasis added). These three criminal statutes all address the possession and handling of materials that contain national-security information, public records or material relevant to an investigation or other matters properly before a federal agency or the courts.

The materials to be seized included “any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021”—i.e., during Mr. Trump’s term of office. Virtually all the materials at Mar-a-Lago are likely to fall within this category. Federal law gives Mr. Trump a right of access to them. His possession of them is entirely consistent with that right, and therefore lawful, regardless of the statutes the FBI cites in its warrant.

Those statutes are general in their text and application. But Mr. Trump’s documents are covered by a specific statute, the Presidential Records Act of 1978. It has long been the Supreme Court position, as stated in Morton v. Mancari (1974), that “where there is no clear intention otherwise, a specific statute will not be controlled or nullified by a general one, regardless of the priority of enactment.” The former president’s rights under the PRA trump any application of the laws the FBI warrant cites.....

......The PRA lays out detailed requirements for how the archivist is to administer the records, handle privilege claims, make the records public, and impose restrictions on access. Notably, it doesn’t address the process by which a former president’s records are physically to be turned over to the archivist, or set any deadline, leaving this matter to be negotiated between the archivist and the former president.

The PRA explicitly guarantees a former president continuing access to his papers. Those papers must ultimately be made public, but in the meantime—unlike with all other government documents, which are available 24/7 to currently serving executive-branch officials—the PRA establishes restrictions on access to a former president’s records, including a five-year restriction on access applicable to everyone (including the sitting president, absent a showing of need), which can be extended until the records have been properly reviewed and processed. Before leaving office, a president can restrict access to certain materials for up to 12 years.

....Nothing in the PRA suggests that the former president’s physical custody of his records can be considered unlawful under the statutes on which the Mar-a-Lago warrant is based..........

Nothing is said about the former president himself, but applying these general criminal statutes to him based on his mere possession of records would vitiate the entire carefully balanced PRA statutory scheme. Thus if the Justice Department’s sole complaint is that Mr. Trump had in his possession presidential records he took with him from the White House, he should be in the clear, even if some of those records are classified.

In making a former president’s records available to him, the PRA doesn’t distinguish between materials that are and aren’t classified. That was a deliberate choice by Congress, as the existence of highly classified materials at the White House was a given long before 1978, and the statute specifically contemplates that classified materials will be present—making this a basis on which a president can impose a 12-year moratorium on public access.....

Messrs. Rivkin and Casey practice appellate and constitutional law in Washington. They served at the Justice Department and the White House Counsel’s Office in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-tr...fbi-garland-11661170684?mod=opinion_lead_pos6

And this does not even touch an the counsitutionality of the search warrant itself which even reading the above constitute3s a "general search warrant" which is unconstitutional

Particularity.—“The requirement that warrants shall particularly describe the things to be seized makes general searches under them impossible and prevents the seizure of one thing under a warrant describing another. As to what is to be taken, nothing is left to the discretion of the officer executing the warrant.”132 This requirement thus acts to limit the scope of the search, as the executing officers should be limited to looking in places where the described object could be expected to be found.133 The purpose of the particularity requirement extends beyond prevention of general searches; it also assures the person whose property is being searched of the lawful authority of the executing officer and of the limits of his power to search. It follows, therefore, that the warrant itself must describe with particularity the items to be seized, or that such itemization must appear in documents incorporated by reference in the warrant and actually shown to the person whose property is to be searched.134
https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/09-particularity.html

 

The point was not who was president, but who has access to security clearance and who can steal said documents who had security clearance.

 

No, just stating what the emphasis was. You are quoted that because Trump had a security clearance, he can take home the documents anytime he wants. I have you another person who had a security clearance, the same type of security clearance Trump had, and yet, he took them home, sold them to the Russians, and got caught. He pled guilty and is now serving life in prison without parole. With security clearances and protocols/procedures apply to the President all the way down.

 

When it comes to classified documents, the appropriate administrative authorities keep track of those documents, who had them, when, where, etc. It is how the NARA knew there were missing documents since January 2021, per the NARA letter.

 

Clinton did not destroy nor direct anyone to destroy documents. The Senate hearing concluded no culpability on Clinton, but a lot of culpability on Clinton's staff, namely Cheryl Mills and Justin Cooper who erased the hard drive servers somewhere in 2015 or so.

You might want to read those reports directly instead of listening to Hannity et al.

 

Iff that were the case, then why were there additional documents of such classified nature still there?

BTW, you may want to read this before you answer any further: You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to have an attorney. If you cannot afford one, one will be appointed to you by the court.

 

The protocols for the president are quite different than anyone else in the government. The president has a level of "need to know" than any other person in the government.

 

"Deemed" is not the correct word here, but "actual" is more appropriate. The reason is Trump thinks everything he touches, quite literally, is "deemed personal property" to him no matter what the law says. It is why you have the direct descendants of Fred Jr. suing DJT because DJT took Fred's estate and made it his own to Fred's children and grandchildren. This is punishment in his eyes for not "being loyal enough."

Clear evidence of personal documents would be passports, golf scores, and similar things. But the documents he had at Mar a Lago were not personal, they were and will always be owned by the government, not him. The Cohen pardon, the info on the President of France, and the 11 sets of classified material are clearly owned by the government and not Trump.

The NARA has never approved Mar A Lago as a proper storage facility

 

No they are not.

 

We don't know they found any classified material in Trump's estate.

 

Yes, they are, because the president answers to no one within the Executive Branch.

 

the property receipt on the search warrant says so.

 

That's not how the Constitution works. Congress has the authority to question the president, or his representatives such as the secretary of state, treasury, commerce, etc if they want to on any matter. This is called congressional oversight. For the president directly. Congressional leaders do this quite often, usually behind closed doors. Article 2, section 3 both grants and contains the office of the President. It is why there is "by consent" for certain political offices that the President appoints, oversight, and other mechanisms to constrain the power of the Presidency.

President of the United States does not mean he is King.

https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution

 

That’s a pretty long post. Let me summarize it for people who may not read the whole thing:

 

Now your even copying what most U.S. voters are saying about biden!! Any updates on what biden has done for the TAXPAYING CITIZENS of this country?

"Come on man" what has biden done that is positive for the taxpayers?

 

Not if they are predictable answers like yours. Do you have anything positive to report on what biden had done for the TAXPAYING CITIZENS of this country?

 

I thought you were interested in proving Biden was more senile than Trump. Goal post shift much?

 

Returned employment to pre-Covid levels.

 

No. I'm interested in saying politicians are corrupt.

I just thought it was hilarious that you are finally copying what everyone else is saying about your worthless, corrupt, political leader that has done NOTHING for the TAXPAYING CITIZENS of this country since taking office

 

My “worthless corrupt political leader”

Mate we voted out Scomo a while back and are looking at one hell of an investigation into his shenanigans whilst in office

Hint Aussie

 

Yes, I posted it here, but repeated below:

http://politicalforum.com/index.php...wave-just-be-a-ripple.603215/#post-1073686145

Yeah, Biden.....

Signed the Inflation Reduction Act
President Biden signed the Inflation Reduction Act to bring down costs, reduce the deficit, and take aggressive action on climate – all paid for by making sure the largest corporations and billionaire tax cheats finally pay their fair share in taxes.

This historic legislation lowers health care costs for millions of families and allows Medicare to negotiate drug prices for the first time. The Inflation Reduction Act caps seniors’ out-of-pocket spending for prescription drugs at $2,000 per year and ensures no senior on Medicare will pay over $35 per month for insulin. Under the law, 13 million Americans, covered under the Affordable Care Act, will see their health insurance premiums reduced by $800.

The Inflation Reduction Act also takes aggressive action to combat the existential crisis of climate change. These historic clean energy investments will help families save hundreds of dollars every year on their energy bills while strengthening our energy security, creating jobs, and getting us closer to meeting our climate goals.

All of this is paid for by establishing a minimum corporate tax to ensure that the wealthiest corporations finally start to pay their fair share, and cracking down on billionaire tax cheats – without increasing audit rates or raising taxes on those making under $400,000 a year by one cent. President Biden promised to make the government work for working families again and that’s exactly what this law does.

Improved health care for veterans
President Biden has long said that it is our sacred obligation to prepare and equip those we send to war and to take care of them and their families when they come home.

As president, he has worked to ensure we make good on this sacred obligation and has signed multiple bipartisan bills to honor and improve care for veterans.

In his first State of the Union address, President Biden called on Congress to pass legislation to make sure veterans impacted by toxic exposures and their families get the comprehensive care and benefits they earned and deserve. In August of 2022, President Biden signed the PACT Act – the largest single bill to address our service members’ exposure to burn pits and other toxins in American history.

Signed the CHIPS and Science Act
President Biden signed landmark legislation into law that will accelerate semiconductor manufacturing in the United States. The CHIPS and Science Act will help lower the cost of everyday goods, strengthen American manufacturing and innovation, create good-paying jobs, and bolster our national security.

The CHIPS and Science Act will help us compete with China by bringing manufacturing jobs back to America. The law makes historic investments in research and development to accelerate the industries of the future and advance U.S. technological leadership.

Thanks to President Biden’s Made In America strategy, the United States has created hundreds of thousands of new manufacturing jobs and businesses are investing in new manufacturing lines across the country. The CHIPS and Science Act makes smart investments in manufacturing and research to build on this historic progress and set America up to win the economic competition for the 21st century.

Took historic action to address the gun violence epidemic
President Biden brought together Democrats and Republicans to pass the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, breaking a 30-year streak of federal inaction on gun violence legislation. The legislation took important steps, including requiring people under 21 to undergo enhanced background checks, closing the “boyfriend loophole,” and providing funding to address youth mental health.

President Biden has moved decisively to combat gun violence – issuing dozens of executive orders and signing the most significant gun violence reduction legislation to pass Congress in 30 years.

President Biden has launched a whole-of-government approach to make our communities safer and issued more executive orders to reduce gun violence in his first year than any other President at the same point in their administration. In July of 2022, Steve Dettelbach, President Biden’s nominee for director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, became the first Senate-confirmed director of the agency in more than 7 years.

Early on in his administration, President Biden took on the gun lobby to rein in the proliferation of ghost guns. The Biden administration acted to ban the manufacture of ghost gun kits and make it illegal to sell ghost guns without a background check.

Restored American leadership on the world stage
Under the previous administration, confidence in U.S. leadership around the world plummeted to historic lows. Since taking office, President Biden has worked to revitalize our alliances and restore America’s position of leadership on the global stage.

When Russia launched an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, President Biden rallied our allies across the globe to ensure Vladimir Putin pays a steep economic price for his unjustified war of aggression.

Thanks to President Biden’s leadership, international confidence in the United States has sharply increased. America is back, and our alliances are stronger than ever.

Ended America’s longest war
After more than 20 years of conflict spanning three previous administrations, President Biden acted decisively to bring our troops home from Afghanistan. Resolute in his commitment not to send another generation of America’s daughters and sons to fight in Afghanistan, President Biden ended our nation’s longest war.

President Biden promised that we’d continue to conduct effective counterterrorism operations in Afghanistan without American troops on the ground. In August of 2022, the United States successfully carried out an airstrike in Kabul, Afghanistan, that killed Ayman al-Zawahiri, who was a key architect behind the 9/11 attacks and Osama bin Laden’s successor as head of Al Qaeda.

In acting to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan, President Biden ended an era of major military operations to remake other countries and refocused our national security efforts on the threats of today – not the threats of 2001.

Took action to address gender-based violence
In 1994, then-Senator Biden authored the Violence Against Women Act which provided legal protection against domestic violence and sexual assault for 28 years until it was allowed to expire under the Trump administration.

As President, Joe Biden broke through two years of Republican obstruction and signed legislation in March 2022 to reauthorize and strengthen the Violence Against Women Act.

Thanks to President Biden’s leadership, the Violence Against Women Act is now reauthorized through 2027 and includes new provisions to expand legal services for survivors and support underserved communities.

President Biden also signed historic legislation ending forced arbitration of sexual assault and sexual harassment, protecting survivors and making it safer to report harassment in the workplace.

Passed the American Rescue Plan
President Biden signed the American Rescue Plan (ARP) Act into law, an unprecedented $1.9 trillion package that helped combat COVID-19 and supercharge a historic economic recovery.

The American Rescue Plan:

Helped get over 500 million shots in arms, distribute millions of therapeutics, and dramatically expand testing capabilities. Over two-thirds of Americans are vaccinated against COVID-19 thanks to the American Rescue Plan.

Delivered needed relief to families by sending over 160 million checks to Americans, expanding food and rental assistance, and providing aid to thousands of small businesses. The expanded Child Tax Credit led to the largest-ever one-year decrease in childhood poverty in American history.

Safely reopened America’s schools and made a historic investment to tackle learning loss and address mental health. Today, over 99% of schools are open for in-person learning. Before the ARP, only 46% of schools were open in-person.


You happy now?

 

Ok so will you admit he did nothing wrong having the documents if he's not charged for illegally possessing the documents?

 

Never said that. Just said that the property receipt showed classified documents that were taken in the search warrant. That's it. And that was the response to your question, "how do we know there were classified documents at his residence?"

Whether he did something wrong or not will be up to the judicial system. So far, the evidence is pretty damning to say the least.