Trump in Lititz, PA right now

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Quadhole, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,702
    Likes Received:
    692
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Telling lie after lie.... It is live on Faux Fox propaganda news and National Enquire right now for the gullible if they so chose too watch.
    Trump is VERY PRO Fracking, the destruction of property to squeeze out a small amount of Oil. Fracking has been a negative energy and cost several billions in USA Govt loses since Trump came on. Fracking only makes money for the business owners, not you or American people.

    Here Trump tell it, as with his other lies, it will KILL PENNSYLVANIA if it goes away. Not True, but locks in the uneducated
     
  2. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10,339
    Likes Received:
    9,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yea it's Trump who's Lying. Wow.
     
    gfm7175, joesnagg and drluggit like this.
  3. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    30,990
    Likes Received:
    28,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Democrats just fear truth. So, they rebrand it. Or, in the case of their sell out candidate, ignore it completely. But they sure lapped up the Russia hoax. You still have folks on this forum who believe so deeply that the machine lie was truth. It's hard to reeducate them. Perhaps conservatives should investigate the reconciliation camps... No, actually kidding there. But the fun part was adopting the liberal perspective and the authoritarianism of lefties these days, just to give them that twinge...

    And the awful truth here is that our lefty friends seem so determined to adopt this entire pejorative, "we will tell you what to believe" bs. It's what I assumed living in the inquisition might have felt like.
     
    gfm7175, icehole3 and joesnagg like this.
  4. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    Messages:
    4,749
    Likes Received:
    6,799
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And Joe is currently campaigning.....????
     
    gfm7175 likes this.
  5. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    33,519
    Likes Received:
    17,956
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well since I don't for a fracking company, nor have land that a fracking company is using...I am not sure how it's suppose to make me money.....it does however help me save money because it keep oil prices down, since we are produce some much of it.
     
    gfm7175 likes this.
  6. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    7,363
    Likes Received:
    1,633
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Biden lied about getting an investigator fired and Kamala withheld evidence that would exonerate innocent people. Which candidate isn't dishonest?
     
    gfm7175 and joesnagg like this.
  7. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    Messages:
    4,749
    Likes Received:
    6,799
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    :applause::applause::applause::applause:
     
    gfm7175 likes this.
  8. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    40,413
    Likes Received:
    15,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Since it costs more to extract a barrel of oil from a fracking well in the US, than it does almost anywhere else in the world, it’s hard to see how that saves you money. Especially when the fracking companies that aren’t already in the hands of their receivers are furiously pumping at a loss just trying to make enough cash to service the debt on their junk bonds.

    Fracking companies in the US have to sell at the top of the market, and still lose a substantial amount of money on every barrel.

    At some point in the distant future, when oil is used largely to make fabrics, plastics and other reusable things, it will be cheaper to frack than it will to develop massive oil fields in the middle of the ocean. And a cottage fracking industry will emerge.

    But there is no reason to expect oil prices to rise back to the level which would make fracking profitable in the near, or forseeable future.

    That’s why Wall Street wants a bailout for fracking. But it isn’t investing in it anymore.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
    MissingMayor likes this.
  9. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    33,519
    Likes Received:
    17,956
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because it make our supply higher....check out something called supply v demand.

    Seems to be doing a good job keeping prices low....https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/
     
    gfm7175 likes this.
  10. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    40,413
    Likes Received:
    15,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    High cost supply doesn’t save you money when the market price is below the production price for fracking oil.

    Low oil prices are the results of the Russians pumping every barrel it can in order to prop up its shaky foreign exchange and service its debt.

    Putin foolishly tried to start an oil price war last March, and was crushed within a week.

    One thing the Saudis and the Russians agreed on was the need to keep the price low enough to drive the high cost producers into the ground. Consequently, the price of oil is considerably below the cost of extraction by fracking.


    Thus that angst amongst the fracking industry, and the GOP effort to prop it up.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
    Quantum Nerd and MissingMayor like this.
  11. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    34,177
    Likes Received:
    12,803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    FYI, you are going to need a link.
     
  12. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    33,519
    Likes Received:
    17,956
    Trophy Points:
    113
    nah we don't rely on Russian oil, never have. We are a net exported of oil

    Oil prices have been dropping her for some time, prior to Russia and SA back and forth. A Hurrican in the Gulf has a greater impact then anything over seas
     
    gfm7175 likes this.
  13. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10,339
    Likes Received:
    9,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    In short supply and demand has lowered prices.
     
  14. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    40,413
    Likes Received:
    15,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You really are that parochial!

    Oil trades on a global market. No, to my knowledge, we never imported Russian oil. But they are still one of the largest producers in the world.

    Indeed, if we have the leadership to pursue renewables and lead the charge to it, we can bankrupt Russia.

    Oil prices have been dropping because of overproduction.

    You don’t seem to be able yo get it through your head that all imported oil is far cheaper than ANY fracked oil costs just to get it out of the ground.

    But you Trumpsters do have an affinity for expensive, dirty one time use energy sources with huge environmental liabilities!
     
    Quantum Nerd likes this.
  15. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10,339
    Likes Received:
    9,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    OH BS you don't have a renewable option right now. Eventually tech will catch up but it's not ready yet. What is not logical is spending another billion on a company like Solendra to get the shaft. Again, they nor the market was ready. Look I love solar I buy and sell almost a million worth a year, I know it's not ready for grid replacement. Why are dems so against clean gas, it's helped lower our emission tremendously. We all want to be where you want but not at the cost it presents today. We can't shut down our economy to force renewables, what would you gain a bigger lower class? Until the day comes when the technology makes sense we need to remain energy independent. No more being reliant on the middle east, have you noticed how much it's calmed down now that we don't need them, coincidence?
     
  16. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    40,413
    Likes Received:
    15,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes. And fracking, the high cost producer is being squeezed out of the market. When that happens, we’ll be an importer again.

    We have not been energy independent in the low sulphur oil needed for gasoline production, and we aren’t now. Not even close.

    But the investment and the interest is all in renewables.
     
  17. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    33,519
    Likes Received:
    17,956
    Trophy Points:
    113
    no russia really isn’t
     
  18. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    40,413
    Likes Received:
    15,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I’m certain that the transition to renewables will happen much faster than most people think. And it won’t need to be forced.

    I am not against gas at all. I heat my home with it. I expect it to be used increasingly for base load power too. Analysts are already saying that they are overbuilt, and the success of Hornsdale is a clear signal that battery farms will be where the industry goes for peak power. No power plant that burns any sort of fuel can even come close to matching the performance of a battery farm.

    The curve is about to go straight up.

    All the automobile companies around the world are committed to the change. So are several governments, particularly in the EU. In that respect, Gavin Newsome’s ideas are not radical at all.

    Cost is not an issue. Solar and wind generation costs are falling below coal and nuclear. They are both easily scalable, and do not require the long term large capital investment that building large central power plants require. Nor do they incur the environmental liabilities.

    Battery costs are now just about to the point where electric storage and motors are beginning to offset internal combustion engines (look at all your power and yard tools if you have any doubt about that. The invasion of the battery is already well underway. What you see at Home Depot now, is a trickle. The guy trying to sell you air conditioning today will be selling you a power wall a year and a half from now. And once people get used to. the idea that they have backup power that can run their home (and eventually charge their car) for a week, the idea won’t seem far fetched at all. Far better than a dirty, noisy generator!

    The automobile companies are all on board. The American companies solve their two biggest problems! Emissions issues vanish, enabling them to build the kind of large cars that American prefer, something they’re actually very good at (see trucks, we make the best). No more worrying about CAFE standards.

    I expect it to take about fifteen years, if that long.

    I know I’ve already bought my last gasoline powered car (and it was a Prius).

    I’m not a tree hugger. I though the environmental movement always short changed itself with it’s tendancy toward sky is falling predictions. But we have much cleaner air and water because of them, and I see no reasonable argument against more of the same.

    My attitude about fossil fuels and the oil industry was shaped by sitting in gas lines. The first time, I just though that this was a temporary problem that Americans should solve by 1980. After all, we had just sent men to the moon in less than a decade, It didn’t seem to be that big a challenge.

    Then I learned about oil companies and Wall Street.
     
  19. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    3,416
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They’re visiting odd states like Georgia and Texas this late in the cycle.
     
  20. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2020
    Messages:
    4,401
    Likes Received:
    2,579
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Would you be interested in clarifying this statement?

    I assume you mean that you trade almost $1M/y in solar, but if that's what you mean then I'm curious how you do that.

    Do you trade in solar related equities of some sort, or perhaps you actually own a fairly large solar installation?
     
  21. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2020
    Messages:
    4,401
    Likes Received:
    2,579
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks for that, very interesting reference.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve

    I see on this Wikipedia page the following,

    Power grids are really amazing things.

    Most folks are probably unaware that they have to be regulated to a fairly precise balance between power into the grid versus power out of the grid.

    Substations begin to trip at 0.5 Hz deviations from either the 50Hz or the 60Hz grid standard.

    The performance of the HPR with respect to its reaction time bouncing 7.3 MW into the grid for 8 seconds absolutely cannot be matched by any rotating generator.

    However, I think you may be discounting the magnitude with which the power grid depends on fossil fuel based generation.

    Following the link from the HPR wiki article to the Loy Yang power station article we can see that that dirty monster generates 3280MW into the grid every hour of every day.

    The HPR can at best supply 150MW/195MWh, albeit more or less instantly.

    However, that is only a 150MW burst sustainable only for about 78 minutes.

    Compare that with the Loy Yang article assertion that Loy Yang supplies about half of Victoria's base load requirements,

    In which case we are now looking at 6560MW nominal per hour.

    The HPR only has enough capacity to boost power to the grid by 2.3% for less than 90 minutes.

    Therefore, it seems to me, that at best the HPR has proven itself a very effective method for frequency control, but not really so much for peak power management, yet.

    Loy Yang and Yallourn both burn brown coal / lignite. This is pretty much the absolute worst of all fossil fuels with respect to environmental impacts.

    While I appreciate anyone's enthusiasm for sustainable power and agree with the authors of my Organic textbook that crude oil reserves represent a resource that is of far greater value than its use as fuel, I have a full stop with the IPCC faithfull.

    Let's say we are serious about eliminating the nasty lignite source of power in Victoria.

    Further, let's say that we will only consider zero carbon replacement options.

    Let's say we're going to go with a combination of wind and solar and batteries.

    Let's say we want a battery reserve of one day.

    The HPR is rated at 195MWh reserve.

    As mentioned above, Victoria demands 24h(6560MW) for a total of 157,440MWh reserve.

    That equals 807 HPR facilities.

    So when all the government does is tax carbon emissions, how does that really support a change that requires consideration of infrastructure adjustments of this magnitude?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020

Share This Page