Trump-Kim summit breaks down after North Korea demands end to sanctions

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MrTLegal, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    It's a damned shame when you can't take the President's word literally. You apologists slay me. If it's a negotiating tactic then he needs to shift gears because it's not working. This isn't a New York real estate deal. This is high-level foreign policy matters.
     
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  2. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    You are being intentionally obtuse to claim that the allegation is regarding the legality of the NDA.
     
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  3. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    I do not recall that event, but I will do some research.
     
  4. Libby

    Libby Well-Known Member

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    It is historic that Trump and Kim are even meeting and that talks of denuclearisation are even happening at all. These things don't happen overnight. Whether denuclearisation happens or not, it is more likely to happen if the leaders are talking than if they are not.

    Obviously the current proposal from North Korea was inadequate, in which case it makes perfect sense that Trump walked away from the offer.

    More from the article, for anyone interested in more details and context:


     
  5. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    I for one am not gloating. I want peace for Korea, and preferably a free, reunited Korea. We won't get that with Trump buttering up the fat little dictator, though. His "relationship" with the little murderer will go nowhere, aside from maybe netting Trump Inc. real estate deals in the Hermit Kingdom some day.

    At least he has his pal Pootie to try making a "deal" with yet. There's that whole INF issue to contend with there. There's also Venezuela, of course, which is looking increasingly like his own personal Syria, complete with Russian intercession in the local dictator's favor.

    Good luck! Let's see at least one "win" come out of it all. That would be nice.
     
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  6. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    You realize that him ending the summit unilaterally because the kid demanded all the cookies in the cookie jar or he'd continue to **** the bed, is putting the kid back in time out until they're ready to talk again.... right?

    Dictators are strongman types and then you have the East meets West cultural divide to hurdle. Dictators demand all. If you give them that, they'll walk all over you. You have to establish boundaries, shared interests, even a convivial relationship. Hence the "hey NK could be as prosperous and popular as vietnam is!" lines, the "you're a great leader" bit, and the "we're not doing that, summit over nice to see you" walkoff when pressed.
    For East meets West, deals are hammered out very slowly in Eastern culture. The more important they are, the longer it takes and the more dancing and dickering MUST be seen to be involved for reputation's sake.
     
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  7. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Side note: The South Korean Foreign Ministry Spokesman is named Lu Kang. That is all.
     
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  8. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    They usually have more legitimate purposes than covering up a playboy's infidelity.
     
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  9. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    Wasn't he a character in Mortal Kombat?
     
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  10. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    The only reason this was historic is because we have a president so desperate to create the appearance of making a deal that he was willing to meet the North Korean despot before any substantial negotiation or agreement was put into place.

    How many times has North Korea promised to denuclearize?

    1985
    1992
    1994
    2005
    2007
    2012
    2017
     
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  11. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    :boxing::boxing::boxing::boxing::rock_slayer::rock_slayer:
     
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  12. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Trump gave KJU plenty in exchange for nothing. He met with him, as equals, on the world stage twice without KJU making or agreeing to any substantive reforms. There is a reason that no previous President was willing to meet under those conditions and it is because the recognized the value of the meeting, by itself, for the North Korean leaders. You do not give up that kind of value without getting something of substance from the North Koreans first.

    But Trump thought his great relationship with a ****ing despot would be enough.

    Do you view "putting the kid back in time out" as a win?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  13. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    He got nothing???? But...but...but... he's the world's best negotiator! He even said so!
     
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  14. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    It looks to me like Kim is stalling here. He will never denuclearize, but he'll take an end to the sanctions if he can get it. Trump won't get a better "deal" by praising the fat little murderer and saluting his generals.
     
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  15. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but Reagan had a brain. I didn't like how it thought, but it was a brain.
     
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  16. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    But the fat little Child-in-Chief likes dictators and wants to be treated like Kim. He even said so!
     
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  17. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In that case, a lot of congress critters are in for a big surprise.
     
  18. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    He must project himself onto Kim. Trump knows deep down that flattery works on himself, so he thinks it will work on Kim. :D

    :(
     
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  19. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    That could be said in 3 words: "He's a liar!"
     
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  20. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    A cording to anti trump NBC News:

    The decision to drop, for now, a significant component of a potential nuclear deal suggests a reality that U.S. intelligence assessments have stressed for months is shaping talks as they progress: North Korea does not intend to fully denuclearize, which is the goal Trump set for his talks with Kim.

    Meaning trump gave away nothing for nothing

    Which was the right thing to do

    And the sanctions are still there
     
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  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Hawgs, what's your first language? I'm just curious.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  22. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Alright, so I did some research and I think this negotiation is very much distinguishable.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reykjavík_Summit

    Now, it is possible that we still need to get more information about the meeting that broke down today (the 1986 summit has obviously had 30+ years of declassification and research), but it appears as though that meeting came extremely close to an agreement with both sides showing a willingness to concede on a large number of fronts and about a lot of issues.

    The current meeting broke down over two issues - denuclearization and sanctions - and it broke down because neither side was willing to concede beyond "one facility in exchange for all sanctions."
     
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  23. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    I hate to tell you this dude, but you can't keep someone in the corner AND get them to negotiate with you. You have to bring them out of the corner and engage with them to secure their willing cooperation since you cannot watch them all the time. If they aren't willing to cooperate THEN you send them back to the corner. Which is what happened here. He demanded something for nothing, and got sent back to the corner.

    This is what you do if you're not willing to watch them all the time and beat the **** out of them when they fail to comply. Which, for the record, we are unwilling to do just because they won't come to the table on our terms because it would start a war with China which would be MAD. We are likewise unwilling to let them keep lobbing rockets over our allies who we forcibly disarmed, or faff about with nukes and loose talk of threats. Hence the talks. Which have borne some fruit: When was the last missile lobbed over Japan?

    The time for the full freeze out tactic passed when Clinton handed them over the remaining tech they needed to nuclearize. It wasn't the most effective tactic before that point, but after that point its worse than useless.
    You're isolating and (from their perspective at least) antagonizing a madman who has been told he's a god from birth and who is perfectly willing to murder members of his own family in horrendous ways to maintain power. A madman who now has a weapon. Either find out how to get along, or shoot him in the face. We've established you're not willing to shoot him in the face under these circumstances, because others will begin shooting you in the face, so try to get along.
     
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  24. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Trump gave away plenty just by agreeing to meet the North Korean leader, twice, in person, on the world stage.
     
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  25. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    The flying bicycle kick!!!!

    [​IMG]
     
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