Trump refuses to pay for damages in Syria

I think you will find that the US does not really care about democracy very much. Neither in the US nor anywhere else.

 

You don't get it.. If the minority of poor Shia people overthrow the government of Bahrain, all business will leave and move to the Emirates.

The al Houthis in Yemen don't want democracy. They overthrew the democratically elected president.

Prior to the 2014–15 coup d'état, Yemen was a semi-presidential representative democratic republic

Legislative Branch Of The Government Of Yemen. Yemen has a bicameral legislature consisting of a 111 member Senate, appointed by the president; and a 301 member House of Representatives, elected by popular vote to serve an 8 year term.
Reference: www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-type-of-government-does-y…

The Saudis had nothing to do with the ousting of Hosni Mubarak. The problems in Egypt were/are corruption, poverty and illiteracy.

 

I think the US and the UK are presently having their 'moment of madness', which all failing ex-imperialist countries go through.

 

Right. First the Shia are the majority in Bahrain so lets not call them 'the minority of poor Shia'. They may be kept down but they are the majority. Explain why business would leave Bahrain if it became a democracy. Are you speaking of economic warfare.

We have been through this before. Yes they did. Just like the rest of the people of Yemen. Do not start your lark about 'democratically elected' again. The GCC gave them the option of voting for Hadi unopposed. There was only one person to vote for. They were told he would rule for just two years before there would be genuine elections. The people of Yemen gave him those two years. After those two years having failed to sort out problems he continued as President. The people revolted. The Houthi encompassed most of the Yemen people who were not Wahhabi/ Al Qaeda/ISIS/

Whatever the spin. It was a corrupt Government and not a democracy. However it was one the Saud's could get on with as they were trying to spread Wahhabi throughout Yemen.

I think the Sauds did. They were very quick to offer money to the Army after they had done their coup and were busy massacring Muslim Brotherhood supporters engaged in peaceful protest..

https://www.haaretz.com/egypt-s-power-struggle-continues-1.5258807

 

Bahrain does have a Shia majority, but most Shia are literate and employed. They weren't rebelling.. Bahrain has about 1,000 Christians, a smattering of Jews, Hindus and so on.

The Houthis are a minority in Yemen and the Saudis have not spread Wahhabi in Yemen. Not all Zaidis are Houthis. The Houthis are just a tribal group within Yemen; they do not speak or represent the whole of Yemen’s Zaidi community. .

 

wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/mar/03/bahrain-sunnis-shia-divided-society

The houthis began because of the intent to spread Wahhabism throughout Yemen, take over their mosques and so on. However after the Revolution the Houthis were not just Zaidi but also Sunni (non wahhabi) supporters of the revolution including some of the army.

Tell Me about Salef! President, Zadi background but pleasing the Sauds by spreading Wahhabism around Yemen. While in Government trying to get the Americans to bomb the Houthi telling them they were in cahoots with Iran when American Intelligence did not agree. Later of course he formed an alliance with the Houthi.

No they are not just a tribal group. They encompass all those opposed to the Wahhabi/ISIS/AlQaeda and we could also throw in Boko Haram. Unlike them the Houthis are not religious extremists. They do not want everyone to force everyone to become Zaidi.

The Houthi have been the main people fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda in Yemen - that is both Sunni and Zaidi. The Saudi Coalition are often found fighting with Al Qaeda and ISIS against the non Wahhabis of Yemen.

Now I have a day to live. I do not have time to go over all this again. Besides you are just trying to distract from the point. The Sauds interfered in genuine, people led protests for democracy in both Bahrain and Yemen - what was called the Arab Spring because a) Saudi Arabia wants that whole area Wahhabi and b) Saudi Arabia is terrified of Democracy as it may come to Saudi Arabia. Because of this they have caused the worst humanitarian disaster in the world ...and this is what the US supports.

 

No.. you are mixed up.. Bahrain has a Shia majority, but that majority doesn't want to overthrow the government.. They are literate and employed.. The poor, unemployed Shia who won't go to school are unhappy.

The Houthis are a minority in the Zaidi group and they are radicals... Not all Shia or Zaidi are Houthis.

Out of the Muslims in Yemen, 52% is Sunni, 46% is Shi'a, and 2% areDruze.

Boko Haram are bad news for everyone.. They are opposed to education which is what Muslims need.

 

Zaidis—within 200 years of Islam, they had established this. So in that way, they are quite revolutionary. But what [Hussein al-Houthi] did is that he mixed Zaidi revivalism with anti-imperialism, anti-U.S. [sentiment]. And so the slogan that said, “God is great / Death to America / Death to Israel / Curses to the Jews”—that slogan, that was his way of mashing the two together.

That this is how you’re supposed to be as a good Zaidi Muslim, is to go against these unjust rulers.

But the Houthi movement, when they arrived in Sanaa, changed their name. They now call themselves Ansar Allah. Ansar Allah—“the Partisans of God”—kind of like Hezbollah. They call themselves the passers of the Quran. So they are claiming they want a movement beyond a sect, where they can unify all Muslims together to fight imperialism. They have all these really grand ideas of who they are and what is there mission.

It is quite fluid. When you talk to them, they use all this flowery language about the divine victory of God that made them arrive in Sanaa and spread across Yemen. They believe a lot of that religious ideal of "God is on their side," especially their fight with al-Qaeda.

In a strange way, regardless of the “Death to America” slogan, the Americans and the Houthis are actually fighting the same enemy. This is part of the complexity. The Saudis are allegedly fighting ISIS and al-Qaeda, the Americans are allegedly fighting ISIS and al-Qaeda, and so are the Houthis. They’re all on the same side. Yes, they’re all fighting against each other. Welcome to the Middle East.

continued

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/who-are-yemen-houthis/390111/

 

Muslims need more than education.
Besides education, Muslims need manners.
They need to respect others.
They need to learn about tolerance and civil rights.
Less violence and hatred to those who are not Muslims.

 

Margot. This is a Saudi Propaganda piece.

Your link.

Up till now, you have been throwing one untruth after another and I have answered them all. Once one of your myths is shown to be wrong you just come up with another and a Saudi writing about the Zaidi is probably the most blatant propaganda you could produce.

If anyone is interested in looking at this in more depth a lot was covered in this thread http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ause-worlds-largest-famine-in-decades.518794/

So to get back on topic. This is the post that started you in denial. I must have written something important in it.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...amages-in-syria.539947/page-9#post-1069508944

 

This piece is the most comprehensive explanation of a complex situation.

Who are the Houthis, and why are we at war with them? - Brookings


The Houthis emerged as a Zaydi resistance to Saleh and his corruption in the 1990s led by a charismatic leader named Hussein al Houthi, from whom they are named. They charged Saleh with massive corruption to steal the wealth of the Arab world’s poorest country for his own family, much like other Arab dictators in Tunisia, Egypt, and Syria.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/mark...-the-houthis-and-why-are-we-at-war-with-them/

 

Excerpt

First and foremost, the Houthis are Zaydi Shiites, or Zaydiyyah. Shiite Muslims are the minority community in the Islamic world and Zaydis are a minority of Shiites, significantly different in doctrine and beliefs from the Shiites who dominate in Iran, Iraq, and elsewhere (often called Twelvers for their belief in twelve Imams).

The Zadiyyah take their name from Zayd bin Ali, the great grandson of Ali, Muhammad’s cousin and son-in-law, whom all Shiites revere. Zayd bin Ali led an uprising against the Umayyad Empire in 740, the first dynastic empire in Islamic history, which ruled from Damascus. Zayd was martyred in his revolt, and his head is believed to be buried in a shrine to him in Kerak, Jordan. Zaydis believe he was a model of a pure caliph who should have ruled instead of the Umayyads.

The distinguishing feature of Zayd’s remembered biography is that he fought against a corrupt regime. Sunnis and Shiites agree that he was a righteous man. The Zaydi elevate him to be the epitome of a symbol of fighting corruption. The Houthis have made fighting corruption the centerpiece of their political program, at least nominally.

The Zaydi do not believe in ayatollahs like the Twelver Shiites—who are the Shiite sect in Iran and most of the Muslim world—nor do they practice the other Twelver doctrine of taqqiyah (dissimulation), which permits one to disguise his or her faith for self-protection.

continued

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/mark...-the-houthis-and-why-are-we-at-war-with-them/

 

All your Arab leaders are butchers, this one happened to defeat Western values which weren't something to begin with, but he isnt special, just a tyrant Arab that survived, for now.

 

Margot, we were not discussing the Houthis and I am not going to waste time reading your blah because I studied this with you on the other thread and I know that the Houthis are people from all over particularly the North of Yemen both Sunni and Zaidi and of all different political and religious minds from the most liberal to those for whom religion is the most important and I know that they are not intending any religious whatever. A few of the most religious may want this but Democracy is what they began fighting for and Democracy is what they are still fighting for.

However they are not what we were talking about. The Saud's destroyed the Arab Spring in both Bahrain and Yemen and in Yemen have caused the worst humanitarian disaster that is going on in the world - that is worse that Syria, worse than anything. Now the people who are trying to make all Muslims the same and the people who cannot stand Democracy are the Saudis's no one else and they are the people to whom religion is so important that not only did they cause all the mayhem and death in Syria, they are doing it again in Yemen and in Bahrain oppression and attacks continue. Kingdom of Saudi Arabia - probably more guilty than the US for the millions of Muslims who have died in the last ten years.

Bye the way when are you going to provide a link to your claim that 'one or two' of the boys in Syria who put the Graffiti up were delivered deal a few weeks later. You are the only person who claims this.

 

Nope. Got to find some tiny country that can't fight back. Maybe a small island like Grenada!

 

Suggest you measure butchers by the number of civilian deaths they caused then give us the list.

 

I posted a link already about the one dead schoolboys.

If the Shia dissidents had overthrown the government, the banking and financial sector would have left Bahrain for the Emirates which would have also hurt the Shia Bahrainis who are prosperous good citizens.

 

I misread this when replying earlier. I never said the Saudi's had anything to do with ousting Mubarak. I said "Saudi Arabia also seems to have had a hand in the Egyptian Coup".

 

No you didn't. You posted several links which had nothing about dead schoolboys.

 

As long as they can be the dictators they gladly promote their version of "Democracy", which means, "do as I say, or else!"

 

Or Venezuela!

US President Donald Trump picks fresh fight with Venezuela

"We have many options for Venezuela and by the way, I'm not going to rule out a military option," Trump said from his New Jersey golf club, adding, "A military operation and military option is certainly something that we could pursue."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/ameri...donald-trump-picks-fresh-fight-with-venezuela

 

You know it could be Germany they go after. That would be a very stupid move I think.

 

Jump to search
Hamza Ali Al-Khateeb

Born Hamza Ali Al-Khateeb
(حمزة علي الخطيب)
October 24, 1997
Al-Jiza, Daraa, Syria
Died May 25, 2011 (aged 13)
Daraa, Syria
Cause of death Torture and mutilation and/or gunshot
Residence Daraa, Syria
Nationality Syrian
Known for Detainment, torture and murder that sparked Syrian protests

Hamza Ali Al-Khateeb (Arabic: حمزة علي الخطيب‎) (October 24, 1997 – May 25, 2011) was a 13-year-old Syrian boy who died while allegedly in the custody of the Syrian government[1] in Daraa. On April 29, 2011, he was detained during a protest. On May 25, 2011, his body was delivered to his family, having been badly bruised, along with burn marks, three gunshot wounds, and severed genitals. Hamza's family distributed photos and video of his body to journalists and activists. Shocked by what was depicted, thousands of people showed their support for Hamza online and in street protests.

 

The Saudi were ticked off that Mubarak had been ousted and even angrier that MB took over.

 

Are you taking Trump's comment on Venezuela as some form of invasion?

If nothing is done from other nations to "help" Venezuela, it will turn into another Libya. More people will flee the nation and the majority of them will end up in the US.

So the question really becomes, what should be done?

At this point, discussion and politics really can't do a damn thing. There are only a couple options that can be considered now:

1 - Military intervention until the government is back on it's feet.

2 - Throw money/arms at the government until they (mostly likely violently) get control of their nation.

3 - Do nothing and likely watch as the nation crumbles even further into an absolute failed state

3a - Leave immigration/amnesty laws the way they are.
3b - Create tighter immigration laws/regulations in order to curb or at least track the migrants fleeing

Which would be the most acceptable to you?