Trump strikes. How are you feeling?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by modernpaladin, Apr 14, 2018.

?

Which best fits your position?

  1. I was generally happy with Trump until we bombed Syria.

    3 vote(s)
    12.5%
  2. I was not very happy with Trump, but we needed to bomb Syria.

    3 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. I am generally happy with Trump and we needed to bomb Syria.

    7 vote(s)
    29.2%
  4. I was not very happy with Trump, and even less because we bombed Syria.

    11 vote(s)
    45.8%
  1. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Your evasive babble, posted above, was in reply to my earlier post, which provided truthful answers to your challenge:

    My answer to you was:

    1. There was no "overpowering security threat to the U. S. that caused this big missile attack last night". There was no justification for Trump to bypass the constraints of the War Powers Act. He should have gotten the permission of Congress first! The very same was true when Obama deliberately bypassed the War Powers Act to commit a much worse violation -- the overthrow of the legitimate government of Libya in 2011. Nobody impeached Obama for breaking the law, and it's highly unlikely that anyone will threaten Trump with that, either.... Is that truthful enough for you?

    2. Next, "what are you (?) going to do with all those refugees...?" I'll tell you the same thing that I tell all the hyperliberal Left-wingers who want to throw down our borders and let anyone and everyone just wander in here anytime. We have borders. We have laws. We have procedures for people to wish to try to claim 'asylum'. We have an immigration process. Therefore, anyone entering the United States illegally needs to be apprehended and thrown out -- not hidden and protected by liberal Democrats in "sanctuary cities". Is that truthful enough for you?

    Now, in response to your most recent post (above):

    Ronald Reagan had put through an "amnesty deal" after getting iron-clad commitments from Democrats in Congress that they would help to end (END) illegal immigration by funding and adopting a comprehensive list of reforms that had been agreed to by both parties., But DEMOCRATS reneged on the deal and walked away laughing.... Today, sure enough, we have the rotten, chaotic mess you see.... Don't blame Ronald Reagan for it!

    Moreover, trying to blame any president (even an America-hating internationalist like Obama) is bullshit! Any foreigner who comes barging into the United States illegally is an ILLEGAL ALIEN, period! The difference is that Obama and the hyperliberal Democrat cadres showed clearly that laws regarding illegal aliens were not to be taken seriously. But, by contrast, Donald Trump does take them quite seriously....

    And, yes, Obama did break the War Powers Act of 1973, which actually was invented by Democrats (what an irony!) to keep this country from getting plunged into any more catastrophes like VIETNAM! Read the War Powers Act -- it is very specific about what the president MUST do, and for exactly WHAT specific reasons, when, and why! Truth? Donald Trump did not comply with the War Powers Act! Neither did Obama, who directly caused the overthrow of the legitimate government of Libya -- with which we had been at PEACE for many years, until Obama started bombing it! There was no 'imminent danger to the United States'... there was nothing that warranted Obama's breaking this LAW!

    Oh, and please take note of the fact that the War Powers Act does not (NOT) provide any sleaze-factor exceptions about "coalitions", "alliances", and any international 'third parties' taking precedence over the LAW of the United States of America!

    Go ahead! Read what the War Powers Act actually states. Enlighten yourself! Link: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/chapter-33
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  2. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    ^ in your emotional rant you fail to note the actual authority of treaties under the Constitution which is:



    Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution gives the President the power “to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur.” And the Supremacy Clause provides that “treaties,” like statutes, count as “the supreme law of the land.”


    Please do your homework before trying to debate this subject with me.
     
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  3. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Get the US out of the UN, and get the UN out of the US.

    And bring all the troops home within these borders.

    Syria is not our problem.
     
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  4. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Trump strikes. How are you feeling?"

    How am I feeling? Angry. Trump should be hung (alongside Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tony Blair, and Teresa May) in Nuremberg and then transported to the Piazzale Loreto ... and left there to rot.
     
  5. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    You need to understand exactly what our relationship to NATO consists of, and how those automatically bind the United States to committing acts of war: https://www.state.gov/p/eur/rt/nato/

    Article 5 of the Washington Treaty -- that an attack against one Ally is an attack against all -- is at the core of the Alliance, a promise of collective defense. But -- which 'member state' of NATO was being attacked by Libya in 2011?! None? Therefore, what was the justification for the Obama regime to manipulate a scheme to overthrow the legitimate government of Libya? None?

    Link: https://www.state.gov/p/eur/rt/nato/

    The "Supremacy Clause" and its mechanism of "Federal Preemption" was installed into the Constitution to give a centralized Federal Goverment absolute power over the governments of individual states of the United States.

    You might enjoy: http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/22/libya-and-the-myth-of-humanitarian-intervention/
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  6. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've disliked Trump ever since he first said our POW's were bad soldiers since they got caught. That the only good soldiers were the ones who didn't get caught. I know, this was a dig at McCain, but in my mind, an unforgivable one that I took as very disparaging upon every single POW this country has ever had.

    As for the missile strike on Syria, not bombing if the news report are right. I'm tired of us trying to be the world's policeman. I understood the need to defeat ISIS, fine with me. But not trying to oust Assad in a regime change agenda of a legal leader of another country. Who are we that we feel it's this nation duty to decide who rules Syria?

    As for Trump, the missiles made no difference in my opinion of this obnoxious, egotistical, uncouth, name calling like a five year old whose parents failed to teach him any manners, thin skinned, feud creator and a bunch of other adjectives of an oaf of a president.

    I always have and still do look at the 2016 presidential election as a good news, bad news election. The good news, Hillary Clinton lost. The bad news, Trump won. If those two were the best candidates our two major parties could produce, they need to be thrown out the windown onto the trash heap of history. Their usefulness is at an end.
     
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  7. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    If you troubled yourself to read my posts on Libya during the Obama years you would know I opposed NATO's action in that area.

    Bottom line however, is that NATO took this action and the USA was under obligation to follow its direction under the Treaty. Do your homework and see for yourself.
     
  8. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    You see, now that's a poll with fine options, for a change.
     
  9. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Surgically hitting water.
     
  10. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    When a NATO 'action' is undertaken based on an out-and-out LIE what are we to do? Go blindly along? That's what got the world plunged into World War I.

    There is nothing about this fraudulent use of the NATO 'treaty' provision that exempted Obama from the necessity to comply with the War Powers Act of 1973! He should have at least contacted Congress before he authorized hostilities, and said, "Uh, with the authority of NATO in our, uh, "treaty", I'm going to bomb the sh*t out of Libya and overthrow its government... have a nice day!" Even something so little as that might have provided barest-of-bones compliance with the War Powers Act. Hell, even "W" Bush, who I grew to despise because of his handling of nearly everything during his last six years in office, bothered to get the permission of Congress before he blundered into Iraq!

    Notice also, please, that I don't excuse Donald Trump, either! He should have complied with the War Powers Act before authorizing hostilities against the legitimate, recognized government of Syria -- because Syria did not (NOT) pose an imminent threat or danger to the U. S., its territories, or possessions!

    Afterthought -- I'm an old guy, and a Vietnam-era vet. I remember exactly how we got into the indescribably horrible mess that was Vietnam. We've already had two other 'adventures' dragging out in the Middle East and Afghanistan for even longer than our involvement in Vietnam lasted! We do not (NOT) need another one over Syria!
     
  11. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Glad to you know you are seeing things my way.

    As I have said previously, the USA should withdraw from the UN and to desist from ALL foreign entanglements. It is membership in the UN which has caused the USA to intervene in foreign wars none of which we need.

    Any one who has read my posts on this forum knows fully well that I have always been consistent in my principles, unlike right wingers who say government is the problem and needs to stay out of domestic social matters which it can never solve. But those same right wingers believe government is the exclusive solution to all foreign affairs. Somehow in their little minds, government cannot solve our problems but it can solve everyone else's problems!


    The time is NOW to get government out of other people's problems. Set your own house in order before worrying about anyone else.

    We would not have had WW I and likely the same for WW II, Vietnam, 9/11, Iraq, and now Syria if the government would just mind its own godd@mn business and stay out of foreign affairs.
     
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  12. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Damn it! In spite of the fact that we have sparred with each other's posts in this thread, I cannot help but agree with what you have said in the post above! Indeed, we are not "world's policeman", but since Vietnam we have been hell-bent on acting like "the world's toilet paper".

    I must say, I love your observation about how so many of us on the Right believe that "government is the exclusive solution to all foreign affairs"! And I don't doubt for a minute that's at least part of why, so long ago, Democrats thought up the idea of the War Powers Act of 1973 -- to restrain any president from recklessly, and without due diligence, throwing the military might of the country into another stupid, misguided 'adventure' -- like Vietnam.... The War Powers Act didn't stop "W" Bush, and it might not have stopped Obama, either, but even though I've been on "the Right" all my adult life, I endorse the War Powers Act as a rock-solid law that all presidents should be forced to comply with, including Donald Trump.
     
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  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here is a resident of Syria who is extremely glad to see
    that President Trump is taking action against President Bashar Assad........
    and this man is terribly disappointed at how President Obama did nothing for
    his people.

    He wants to be safe.... and see his family safe... .he does not want to become a
    refugee and move to America..... he wants to stay in his own nation.

    This video is exceptional and already has over seven million views.

     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump attacked Syria not out of any concern for the Syrian people but under pressure from his implacable Zionist masters (AIPAC etc) & help make the region safer for Israeli hegemony (i.e. Israel's Oded Yinon Plan)
    The Zionist "Israel Firsters" who direct US Mid-East Foreign Policy, many of whom are Israeli citizens, couldn't care less about ethics or what is in America's best interests.

    Can you think of any other foreign agents directing US Mid East Policy with the influence to drive America to war?

    “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”

    AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003
     
  15. ESTT

    ESTT Well-Known Member

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    I'm not right wing, but I can try to answer your question. I'd say stop these social conservatives from entering by any means necessary. If secular nations can't remove the ones they already have, might as well stop the extra ones from coming in. Personally I don't mind war, but it would depend on the reason. The U.S. war against Syria seems almost pointless.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  16. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Great post. Wish I could give you lots of good rep points for it.
     
  17. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am in your camp. Which is why I did not vote.
     
  18. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    remember the staged parades where people were shown celebrating the toppling of the Saddam statue with them singing high praises for traitor Bush - shortly thereafter it was proven that the parade was orchestrated
     
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  20. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    The War Powers Act is unconstitutional. Congress has no constitutional authority to delegate its powers to another branch of government, it's prohibited by the 10th Amendment. If that were true Congress could also delegate its legislative powers to the Supreme Court or the Executive. Then again, they both already have seized that power, the Supremes via case "law" and the Executive via "signing statements". Isn't it just so cool how all 3 branches managed to get around the Constitution and do as they please. Just a gdam piece of paper.
     
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  21. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No it was not proved. Want proof? You would have proved it had it been true.
     
  22. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In President Bush's case, #43, he submitted his case to congress and got his wars approved first.
     
  23. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    They deserve to have their own home and their own country. The solution isn't leave everyone's country to rot and bring everyone in the world to ours.
     
  24. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    David Zucchino (LA Times) was interviewed by NPR on the matter. Google for more details.
     
  25. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is like George Stephanopoulos being interviewed by Jonathan Karl. It is not proof. Two democrats backing the other.

    For some odd reason, Democrats loathed Saddam's statues being pulled down so came up with wild stories.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018

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