Trump to arm Kurds

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by moon, May 9, 2017.

  1. moon

    moon Well-Known Member

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  2. Pork_Butt

    Pork_Butt Active Member

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    Its a lot better than Obama when he armed ISIS.
     
  3. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    Actually, it's about the same as the Kurds aren't short of extremists and ISIS are very likely to get hold of at least a portion of weapons given away to the Kurds.
    Still, the US arms industry will profit very nicely so that's all fine.
     
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  4. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    This is a pretty good move by Trump and his team, the Kurds have proven that they're among the few groups willing to spill their own blood to bring the fight to ISIS. We risk losing Turkey, but a quick look at Turkish politics shows that we're already losing Turkey.

    And just to make a note of your signature Indofred, there were no enemies of America in the Middle East until the Ba'ath and Iranian National Front parties started to court Soviet influence, and even then the United States was usually willing to work with these groups on pragmatic grounds (think about the Suez Canal crisis.)
     
  5. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Americans have fought along the Kurds side. No wonder liberals are apoplectic.
     
  6. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    I really don't think that the American left has any idea what they want our foreign policy to be. Neither do most right-wingers, but the leftists are so hysterical about opposite moves. First they decry that America's position of leadership is being compromised by Trump bowing to Putin and not being concerned about Assad, and now they decry the fact that he is making substantial moves in the region to re-establish American influence.

    Look, I have absolutely no faith in Trump's ability to lead. As an atheist I pray every night that Trump keeps allowing to grown ups to call all the shots so that we can get through his presidency without a total disaster, but the hysteria about every ****ing move is not only exhausting, but counterproductive.
     
  7. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Look at his nominees. He takes good advice. That is what a leader does.
     
  8. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Well he chose Flynn originally, so whether or not he gets good advice seems to be purely a function of happenstance.

    But I agree. He does get good advice on foreign policy. Mattis and McMaster are, by all accounts, great thinkers, and Tillerson has proven to be surprisingly capable. I just hope he keeps taking that advice.

    Would be nice if he could get some balls rolling on the domestic front, but his apolitical nature is a giant hurdle to clear. We'll see.
     
  9. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Finally...
    [​IMG]
    U.S. Has Started Sending Weapons to Syrian Kurds, Officials Say
    May 30 2017 | WASHINGTON — Two US defense officials say that the American military has begun to provide equipment and weapons to the Kurdish elements of the Syrian Democratic Forces — a group it considers important in the fight against ISIS.
     
  10. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is excellent news! The Kurds simply could not believe the ignorance of Barack Obama when he pulled the troops from Iraq when the country was finally stable. Obama is responsible for the many thousands of deaths in that region, with many of those lives being Kurdish.
     
  11. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Before the Suez crisis Eisenhower had promised to finance the construction of the Aswan Dam. Israel didn't like that so they staged a false flag targeting Americans in Egypt in an operation called Operation Sussanah , better known as the Lavon Affair.

    Ike withdrew from the deal.. The Soviets stepped up to the plate.

    Nasser sought to nationalize the Suez Canal to pay for the Aswan .. nationalization to include buy out the French and British interests.
     
  12. Channe

    Channe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Kurds are good fighters and they've done a great job containing ISIS in the upper part of Iraq. It's a good move on Trump's part. Kurds are Muslim lite and fiercely nationalistic.

    They've got a lot to fight for.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  13. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    They have dogged the Turks since 1950..
     
  14. Channe

    Channe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is that a good or bad thing in your opinion ?
     
  15. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Iraq and Syria should be split apart along religious and ethnic lines.

    I support a separate Kurdish State that is tolerant of Christians. Arm them and allow them to crush ISIS.
     
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  16. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    This coming from an Iranian is pretty funny
     
  17. TeaAddict

    TeaAddict Active Member

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    I have to admit, I no longer support arming any rebel groups, "moderate" or not, simply for the fact the you always run the risk of the weapons falling in the hands of terrorists. I do think, however, we should supply the Kurds with humanitarian, logistical and air support in their fight against ISIS. Screw Erdogan.
     
  18. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    The Lavon Affair had absolutely no impact on American-Egyptian relations, and certainly not on the financing of the Aswan Dam. The Americans still hoped to bring Nasser into their side of the Cold War at this point. Nothing you've said here is technically wrong, it's the suggestion that Israeli interference was the only reason Americans and Arabs could not see eye-to-eye. Nasser and the US couldn't see eye to eye because the Americans hated his willingness to threaten to turn to the Soviets when he couldn't get his way.

    Even still, Nasser was not an "enemy" of the United States until the intrepid bungler Johnson worked his magic.
     
  19. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    I'll bet that Trump will be surprised that Erdogan won't like him arming the Kurds. He has praised Erodgan, I guess bullies have to stick together, but I bet Trump is ignorant that the Kurds and Turks don't get along.
    I think this is all about arms sales, but I "root" for the Kurds.
     
  20. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    He fully understands the Turkish-Kurdish tensions.

    Don't let hating Trump be the lens through which you look at everything.
     
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  21. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Americans are also responsible for the deaths of 100s of 1,000s of Kurds.

    Here's some history on US sacrificing the Kurds for slaughter.

    Just before the 1973 Yom Kippur War between Israel and several MENA countries, the Mossad asked the Kurds to attack Iraq in order to take pressure off of Israel.

    Kissinger sent the Kurds a cable (dated October 16) stating:

    "We do not repeat not consider it advisable for you to undertake the offensive military actions that Israel has suggested to you."

    Since the Kurds trusted the US, they did as Kissinger asked.

    At that time, the Shah (of Iran) was using the Kurds as pawns against the Iraqis for several years. The CIA knew that if the Shah and Iraq ever came to an agreement on their border dispute, the Shah would drop the Kurds like a bucket of puke. In April 1972 the Iraqis signed an FCN with the Soviet Union that gave the Soviets the right to port ships at Iraqi ports, plus Iraq received Soviet military aid and equipment (that was still in use during the Gulf War 1991).

    In June, the Iraqis nationalized the Iraq Petroleum Company (of which 23.75% was US oil company assets). That is what got the ball rolling, because the Shah wanted a more prominent role in OPEC and to do that, the Shah had to deal with the Kurds to set an example for other minority groups living in OPEC member countries.

    In March 1975, the Shah met with the Iraqi vice-president, and then cut off all supplies to the Kurds. The Iraqis then launched a massive offensive against the Kurds.

    The Kurds sent a cable to Kissinger:

    "There is confusion and dismay among our people and forces. Our people's fate in unprecedented danger. Complete destruction hanging over our head. No explanation for all this. We appeal you and USG [US Government] intervene according to your promises..."

    [Note: Emphasis Mine]

    Another cable to Kissinger:

    "Your Excellency, having always believed in the peaceful solution of disputes including those between Iran and Iraq, we are please to see that their two countries have come to some agreement...however, our hearts bleed to see that an immediate byproduct of their agreement is the destruction of our defenseless people.... Our Movement and people are being destroyed in an unbelievable way with silence from everyone. We feel your Excellency that the United States has a moral and political responsibility towards our people who have committed themselves to your country's policy.
    "

    [Note: Emphasis Mine]

    Several hundred Kurdish leaders were killed, or captured and summarily executed. Kurdish forces suffered heavy losses. Kissinger and the US did nothing.

    More than 200,000 Kurds fled Iraq into Iran, but the US and Iran refused to provide any humanitarian assistance, and also refused to allow the UN or any other humanitarian non-governmental organizations help the Kurds.

    At Iraqi insistence, the Shah handed over 40,000 of the Kurdish "intelligentsia" to the Iraqis for execution.

    The US government refused to acknowledge any of the events, and so refused to allow any of the 40,000 condemned, or those that remained of the 200,000 to seek political asylum in the US, even though each and every single one of the qualified for political asylum under the laws in place in the US at the time.

    What's important to understand here (because it might not be readily apparent) is that the Kurds could have attacked the Iraqis at their weakest -- during the 1973 Yom Kippur War, and that the Kurds could have obtained weapons from the Soviet Union and armed themselves against the Iraqis -- but Bazrani the Kurdish leader declined the Soviet offer of weapons, because Kissinger told him not to accept them.

    And the US knew that this was going to happen, because the US/CIA was telling the Shah to use the Kurds as pawns against the Iraqis.

    This is what the US thinks about Kurds......

    "Covert action should not be confused with missionary work."

    -- Henry Kissinger

    See Page 66 of this document (for the Quote) which discuses US-Kurdish History.


    http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA341020
     
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  22. st256

    st256 Banned

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    ...and communists :)
     
  23. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    I think if this post were honest the comment would be about Bush providing ISIS arms when he invaded Iraq.
     
  24. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    1950? you might bone up on the ottoman empire.
     
  25. st256

    st256 Banned

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    There is nothing new under the sun. Bush supported Hitler... Bush supported ISIL :)
     

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