Trump to declare National emergency for Wall

Discussion in 'United States' started by WalterSobchak, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    That is because the horrific violence from the drug cartels is keeping folks away.
     
  2. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Only within the confines defined by Congress. The military population is controlled by the civilian population (as represented by Congress).
     
  3. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    So we need the wall to eliminate drug cartels and thus increase illegal immigration!

    Wait...
     
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  4. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    Surely you have something saying that a department budget can only be adjusted by Congress. They approve the total they do not micro manage every dollar.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  5. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    No, but I want you to think this through.

    If the wall could be built by merely getting the DoD budget adjusted by the SoD without a national emergency declaration or congressional approval, why did Trump need to declare a national emergency or seek congressional approval?

    If you think he did not, then you are both admitting that the national emergency declaration was unnecessary and you are claiming to have a better path forward for Trump than any of his advisers or the members of Congress.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  6. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    So what are the courts going to challenge again? That he passed a NE that stipulated the SoD cut funding in some areas to fund others? Really? This is not new money.. Nothing is being appropriated. The "powers of the purse" are not impacted by this.
     
  7. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    The challenge is based on the US Constitution. Congress has the power of the purse to dictate when and how much funds are directed towards specific endeavors. When and whether they permit flexibility to those spending is within the purview of Congress to decide. Congress has explicitly limited the amount of funds and types of uses for money that can be directed towards building a wall.

    Trump did not like those limitations and thus sought to go around them by declaring a national emergency which is the first time that has ever happened. If Trump can go before congress, demand money for a project, get less than he demanded, and then just declare a national emergency to access other funds, where is the limit?

    One of those limits is Congress and they will almost certainly vote to override his declaration.

    But another limit lies in the authority granted to declare a national emergency and what qualifies. If there is no national emergency (using whatever standard the Courts would use in this situation), then there is no authority by which Trump can access those funds.

    "I didn't need to do this. I just wanted to do it faster. That's all."
     
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  8. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I guess (discounting Friday), today is technically day 3 of the NATIONAL EMERGENCY (all CAPS now required to add to the scare factor)...

    I know I feel safer today that Trump has finally made the declaration. For instance, I was able to make it out to get my kid a haircut this AM without being murdered by 30 MS-13 bangers... Actually, now that I think about it, neither was I offered a kilo of heroin nor was duct tape used on the mouth of the woman cutting his hair.

    Whew... That wall is working wonders already!!!

    I wish all the mainstream news networks would start putting up a daily counter of days of NATIONAL EMERGENCY to stress how idiotic it is... Anybody remember the Iran Hostage Crisis and Ted Koppel.... Day 67 of the hostage crisis.... Day 104 of the hostage crisis... Every dang day... Need the same here except it would be obviously sarcastic....
     
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  9. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    Yet the reality that he did it, tells a different story. Besides.....he knows he had to give the Lame Stream Media and the Cult of leftness something to trigger their TDS.
     
  10. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It has been reported the President had his legal team extensively review his legal authority to declare a National Emergency in this case.

    Your claim he barks out commands without due diligence once again exposes you extreme bias and the emotionalism that has led you to jump to conclusions on a regular basis.

    It is illogical to conclude under the circumstances, that a legal battle would not ensue. He even detailed what that battle would look like when making the announcement.

    I'm sure the courts will be asked to review everything, and considering the courts that will be initially involved, what the President had for breakfast.
     
  11. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    He detailed that battle in a weird sing-song as well, lol.

    But yes, he had plenty of time and reason to look for an out that he could use to sell to his base during the shutdown and in the three weeks during which the bipartisan negotiators made it clear that he would not get anywhere close to his demand. And that in depth analysis resulted in both DOJ and White House lawyers warning him about the shaky legal grounds and the likely ramifications of his actions. And the 12 states, at least, which announced that they will join California in their lawsuit are sure to put their analysis to the test.

    But let's address the shaky congressional backing of his declaration. At least 8 Senate Republicans have voiced their outright disapproval of his declaration. And since the Senate Republicans wont be able to hide behind a filibuster, there is every reason to think the dam will burst.

    ‘The dam could break’: Nate Silver thinks Trump’s ‘national emergency’ may be in real peril from Senate GOP
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  12. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you've given up on your nonsense about the President not doing any due diligence before evoking his Constitutional prerogative.

    I'm not one to engage in supposition or to jump to conclusions. That seems to be your area of expertise.

    Republicans can certainly voice whatever they want to about the President's response to the crisis on the Southern Border.

    I certainly don't give a seconds thought to what Nate Silver has to say about this issue. Why should a guy who is "an American statistician and writer who analyzes baseball and elections", be thought of as having anything meaningful to say on this subject?
     
  13. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Nah, he gave the courts the reason to rule, it's not a National Emergency.
    The idiot liar in chief shot his own foot, yet again. How can anyone support such a moron?
     
  14. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not a National Emergency? Since Congress gave that power to the President, the courts have no say in it other than to apply the law THAT CONGRESS PASSED.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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  15. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    LOL
     
  16. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You think the courts will override the laws the Congress passed? Do you understand the separation of powers?
     
  17. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Uh, courts have overriden the laws Congress passed for over two hundred years.

    Do you ANYTHING about how your country's government works???????????
     
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  18. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So do you think TDS will make the courts overrule the laws that Congress passed and every President has used since they passed these laws?
     
  19. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Oh I have not given up on my declaration that trump routinely and repeatedly spouts off bullshit directives without doing his due diligence. I gave you several explicit examples of his behavior to that end throughout his presidency. And in regards to this specific declaration, I can assure you that no white house counsel recommended that trump should say that he did not need to make a national emergency declaration during the national emergency declaration (and everyone of them would have recommended that he avoid saying such).

    Nate Silver has made it his entire profession to analyze and predict political outcomes. His model accurately predicted the outcome of the 2018 midterms and his model was the most bullish on trump's 2016 chances. His quotations and analysis of GOP senators as it relates to their potential vote on a joint resolution of disapproval for trump's national emergency declaration should carry with it some weight to a person interested in the topic.

    But as you appear to be someone who wants to continue believing whatever they want, regardless of the data to the contrary, I see no reason why you should care.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  20. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your problem in trying to persuade others to believe as you do centers on the extreme bias that filters through just about everything you post related to him.

    I have no doubt that filter causes you to draw conclusions about the President that likely has no basis in reality, other than the one you create to confirm that bias.

    As to Nate Silver, you're welcome to cling to his predictions, because once again, it fits squarely into the confirmation bias you search for.
     
  21. manchmal

    manchmal Well-Known Member

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    So we have thousands of migrants in waves of caravans moving on the border. We have huge numbers of illegal aliens already in the country and more criminals and drugs arriving here in large quantities every day. But that's not grounds for a national emergency? No, to a lib a national emergency would be not having public bathrooms for the so called third genders. What a bunch of hypocrites.
     
  22. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Call it whatever you want. If the Congress doesn't do it, the courts will.
     
  23. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    You do not appear to understand the definition of hypocrites, nor do you appear to have any understanding for how to make it apply in this situation.

    And no, there is no national emergency in regards to illegal aliens crossing along the southern border. The number of apprehensions between ports of entry is at a multi-decade low. The caravans are almost exclusively groups of asylum seekers who recognize that there is safety in numbers.

    "I didnt need to do this. I just wanted to do it faster. That's all."

    National emergencies are not optional.
     
  24. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    You will let me know when you have any sort of data to back up your position, wont you?

    The polling and historical data have not, to date.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  25. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    You are fabricating his position.
     

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