Trump to Pull Thousands of U.S. Troops From Germany

Discussion in 'United States' started by Mandelus, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Source (example)

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-directs-u-s-troop-reduction-in-germany-11591375651

    In short:
    Trump apparently wants to carry out his permanent threat and withdraw around 9,500 of the 34,500 US soldiers in Germany ... because Germany supposedly does not pay enough into NATO.

    Seriously? Yet again?
    OK ... then he should do that and very fast please, Germany can live with it very well and certainly won't be blackmailed by such a bastard in White House.
    It is now known that Trump and his lies in the matter are simply through irrefutable and undeniable facts
    are exposed. Only ... he himself, like his followers, do not like such facts if they are unpleasant and therefore they are simply ignored and disputed.
    Just disgusting how ungrateful and fraudulent the United States has become with President Trump ...

    Facts? OK ...

    #1
    Trump claims wordly on press the press conference that there are 52,000 troops in Germany...
    This shows how uninformed this fool is ... because there are only 34,500 US soldiers according to the Pentagon ... not 52,000 soldiers!

    #2

    Trump claims that these soldiers are in defense of Germany ... against Russia.
    This is a total lie!
    Less than a quarter of these 34,500 soldiers are combat troops (mainly 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment). Likewise, the US bases in Germany serve only and exclusively as a forward operating base, logistics and medical center and intermediate station for all US activities throughout Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. This not only has nothing to do with defending Germany ... no ... it has very little to do with NATO! These are things that only have to do with pure US interests, but nothing with NATO or Germany's defense!
    If Trump actually weakens this own capacity for his own interests, he will kick himself and the USA himself and we Germans will just laugh at you for your stupidity!



    #3
    Trump claims that Germany does not fullfill is obligation to invest 2% of GDP into his military ...
    Fact is that there is a NATO contract done in Wales / UK in 2014 which says that any NATO member has ti fullfill from 2024 onwards ... and do we have 2024 yet?

    #4
    Trump says Germany doesn't pay enough into NATO because of that ...
    Again, this shows that Trump is just a fool ... because he messes up 2 different things ...
    The 2% duty only applies to your own national military, but not 1 cent goes to NATO!
    But there is also a NATO budget ... for example the cost of the NATO HQ in Brussels and a few other things. The USA currently pays the largest share here with around 22% ... but who is in second place with 15%? Exactly ... Germany!
    Trump had already announced that it would cut to just over 16%, Germany had announced that it would increase to the same percentage.


    #5
    Trump claims that the (alleged) wrongdoing costs US taxpayers a lot of money.
    Sorry ... how ridiculous is that now please? That is more than an outrageous lie!
    The facts presented above clearly show that the 34,500 US soldiers have practically nothing to do with NATO and the alleged defense of Germany, but almost only with their own US interests worldwide!
    What then do the costs have to do with Germany? Nothing ... absolutely nothing!

    Conclusion:

    Facts Mr. Trump ... Facts please and none of the fake news that you have spread again like here!
    But I am already aware that Trump fans will denie it all again ... as always, because if Trump suddenly claims that 1 + 1 = 11 and all those who claim 2 is correct, spread fake news .. then Trump’s fans will agree to their idol again. Absolutely hopeless cases these people with the ridiculous red MAGA cap on their heads!

    And honestly ...
    If the ungrateful USA wants to withdraw its soldiers, then please go ... everyone please!
    And so ridiculous statements, because the US bases bring a lot of money to Germany are just a joke. Yes, if Ramstein Base is closed, it hits the people and the village Ramstein hard ... but nobody else and Germany is able to help Ramstein here!
    The fact is that if the troops are withdrawn, the US will only damage itself ... but not Germany at all.

    Personally, I now see it that Russia, with Putin, is a far more reliable partner than the United States. Such a despot with a democratic camouflage coat he is ... Putin has never broken his word ... in contrast to the USA, which nobody can rely on as a partner and / or ally!
    It's about time for a new direction of German politics ... but let's wait for the coming elections to see if the USA is so stupid again and elect Trump again or not.
     
  2. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    If your selective facts are accurat, Germany has nothing to worry about and shouldn't have anything to complain about.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  3. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You guys are tough. Deal with it. This is long overdue.
     
  4. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Not selective facts ... actual facts and not Trump's fake news BS.

    In fact, we are not afraid of anything at all ... because the United States is not actually defending us with its presence in my country ... nor can the United States be trusted as a partner and ally if the worst comes to the worst USA then actually help you as an ally.
    There are enough examples of this that you cannot rely on the USA ... the ingratitude of the USA towards us is already violent!

    In short: his threat is a joke and fizzles out completely ... is more of a shot to the back that hits the USA much harder ... and above all we don't let the USA blackmail us, especially not on the basis of lies!
    You want to go ... then go please and do at best a favour and go completly out of my country. Search another fool who is willing to accept your blackmailing and giving you the FOB for your worldwide intrests.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  5. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    We have no problem to deal with your troop withdrawal, on the contrary.
    But we now have an allergy to the perpetual fire of lies against us that come from Trump and his stupid followers ... stupid, because they are totally immune to unpleasant facts that expose Trump as a liar.

    And honestly?
    Before Trump I saw NATO and even the USA itself mostly as positive ... but the past few years with Trump in White House have changed my perspective by 180 ° and I advocate my country leaving NATO.
    A partnership with Putin makes a lot more sense than being further target of America's lies, getting stupid blackmail attempts from Washington ... and watching the US rape NATO as a tool for its own international interests, that have nothing to do with NATO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  6. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I don't get why Germany wants to still live by the constraints imposed on it after its defeat in WWII? Yet, despite all the protestations and foot dragging, what is the evidence that the Germans are really willing to stand up and not be humiliated again and again into submitting to the demands of those who control power in the US? Not much.

    Maybe kicking out the Americans will not be all that good for the Germany economy in the short run, and I am sure there will be some Germans who will be adversely affected by it in the beginning. But Germany, as a nation, with any pretense to be something more than a vassal state, should focus in earnest on preparing for a separation that is long overdo. If Europe's biggest economy cannot free itself of this domination, then I am afraid the victory of the forces that have tied Germany into submission is much more likely than I would like to believe.
     
  7. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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  8. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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  9. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    The whole thing is a little more complicated ...
    On the one hand, Germany ... both of Germany ... was not a completely sovereign state in the Cold War, since it was because of the East-West conflict / NATO vs. Warsaw Pact and the separation into a "free" West Germany and an "communist" East Germany, there was no final line under World War II in the form of a peace treaty ... only the capitulation of the German Nazi Empire of May 8, 1945 existed.

    With the overthrow of the communist dictatorship in East Germany and the subsequent reunification of both German states, a treaty of freedom was concluded ... the so-called 4 + 2 negotiations (the 4 victorious powers of the WW-2 + both German states). In this contract it was stipulated that the reunified Germany must be a member of NATO (condition of the British and Americans), to which the USSR agreed on the condition that no NATO troops and therefore only German troops may be stationed in former East Germany. Also Germany should also stay as a non nuclear weapon country.

    Note: There is also a point of contention and dispute here that the United States has promised the USSR that NATO will not expand further to the former Warsaw Pact member states like Poland, Hungary, etc. and for sure not into the former USSR republics like the Baltic States.
    At least that's not written in the 4 + 2 contract itself ... but should be a given word by President Bush Sr. is claimed by Russia till today, no idea if true or not. Likewise ... France insisted that the reunited Germany remains a member of the EU and above all that it gave up its hard currency (the D-Mark) in favor of the future common currency, the Euro.

    However ... it is only since reunification in 1990 that Germany has regained full sovereignty. But it is contractually committed to membership of the EU and NATO ... as a condition of the US, UK and France. This also includes obligations and rights ... and at NATO it is, for example, the mutually agreed contract of Wales / UK from 2014 that every member of NATO from 2024 (!) Always invests 2% of the GDP in its defense . At the moment it is around 1.5% in Germany, which then automatically increases to around 1.7% due to a corona-sinking GDP, without a cent being invested (simple math ;-)).
    This treaty of Wales makes all of Donald Trump's BS chattering against my country to be a lie and an outrageous demand, so we're not meeting the 2% right now, eh? We have 2020 and not 2024 ...!!!!

    For me, however, the question arises why we should continue to fulfill our contractual obligation! Great Britain, which also wanted to keep us in the EU, has left the EU itself. The US doesn't care about contracts and give about their content a crap if not being liked suddenly ... see how easily Trump concluded several at contracts unilaterally or how much he gives a crap about the 2% issue as content ... and thanks to France we have to be the reinsurer for the Euro.

    Somehow, too many people have not yet understood ... or refuse to understand ... that Germany is a sovereign country. The times when West Germany had to pull the credit card to pay the mess of others are over. The Greeks had to feel that, many others had to feel it ... and others will feel it too.
    But since many don't like the fact that Germany is defending itself and often says clear "n"o now or makes demands, these ridiculous things wit evil Nazis things always come up then.
     
  10. PanMonarchist

    PanMonarchist Well-Known Member

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    Your word choice and phrasing betrays the bluster and confidence you wish to convey.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  11. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Seriously?

    In my country we have a saying ... "So as you roar in the cave, it comes back as an echo!" ... My post and my chosen words are only an echo of the roaring of others with a red MAGA cap on the head!

    But apart from that ... the facts mentioned are irrefutable, but will be ignored by Trump and his fans, because they'd rather spread lies and fake news like yesterday!

    It is irrefutable FACT that there are currently NOT 52,000 but only 34,500 US soldiers in Germany at the moment!

    It is irrefutable FACT that Germany will only be obliged to invest 2% of GDP in defense from 2024 on and not now in 2020 ... and just because Trump doesn't like it and ignores contract of Wales, it does not changes the Treaty of Wales and Germanys duty out of it!

    And it is also irrefutable FACT that Trump confuses the 2% duty with the common NATO budget, or does not make the necessary difference here ... and that Germany is already paying the most after the USA, soon as much as the USA!

    It is irrefutably FACT that the US troops in Germany have nothing to do with defending Germany and that they hardly take care of NATO issues ... but that the US bases in Germany are only FOBs for worldwide and exclusive US Interests are!

    It is therefore irrefutable FACT that the allegation of Germany's alleged wrongdoing costs the US taxpayer a lot of money, is a total lie!

    And there are more FACTS about and showing what a liar Trump is in reality, shall I name these too? For examle that in money and not percent, Germany invests after the USA most money in military in NATO?
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  12. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Germany had the opportunity, handed to it on a silver platter by Trump, to stand up and assume a leadership position when the US scrapped the JCPOA. But short term cost-benefit analysis kept Germany ultimately from going where it could have gone. Maybe things will develop in ways that will prove me wrong, but for now, Germany to me has been reigned in. Some huffing and puffing aside, there is no doubt who calls the shots. Which is weird, since the ones who call the shots mainly produce paper money and paper IOUs. The actual things of value being produced in this world, aren't produced by them. They are produced in other places, including in Germany.
     
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  13. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    That's right ... only we have no real intention to take a leadership role and tend to escalate to partnership and equal agreements.
    Look ... in Germany you will never see any military parade by the German armed forces like there are military parades in other countries, including yours. Why?
    With the capitulation on May 8, 1945, we Germans were very thoroughly driven out of every form of militarism, as well as nationalism and "being proud" of the military!
    The German military is seen by the clear majority of the population as more than a kind of necessary evil, which one has to have ... but please be as quiet and unobtrusive as possible and as small as possible.

    The big problem is, however, that the Nazi time not only has repercussions for us ... no, all too often we become the bad Nazis from the WW-2 again, if Germany even tries to take a leading role and thus others too step on your feet because it does not bow to its will.

    But the point here is that Germany is currently in 7th place in terms of the ranking of global military spending ... actually in 6th place.
    If we actually invest 2%, we will move up to 4th place, ahead of Russia and more, only the USA will invest in 1st place, followed by China in 2nd place and India in 3rd place!

    Can you imagine what a shitstorm against Germany will start ... because of that the bad Germans will start to arm up again like Hitler did after the seizure of power etc.?
    As for the huge US military budget ... the US spends more than ranks 2 to 9 together! Among them are China and Russia, which together don't even spend half as much money as the USA!
    And the great thing about the whole situation is that around 2/3 of US spending is not even indirectly related to NATO. For example ... what do the huge costs of the US military in Japan and South Korea have to do with NATO? Both are not members or allies of NATO and somehow a little further away from the North Atlantic, which stands for the N in NATO ;-)!

    Our Chancellor Merkel has already made it clear to Donald Trump that he can forget to blackmail us in any way. but Merkel will no longer run for the next election ... and let's assume that my preferred candidate from her party wins the election and Donald Trump also wins his election ... then it becomes very terrible between the United States and Germany, or in matters of Trade with the EU then as well if Trump doesn't change his behavior radically, which in turn is more than unlikely that Trump will ever do. In other words, Trump will find his master in any issue ...
     
  14. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good, we are in agreement. Time for Germany to stand up for itself and NATO should be disbanded.
    Practice Russian in your spare time.
     
  15. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Good ... only that it is fact that Germany stood up all the time for itself and also for many others in NATO ... and here several times for the USA, because they let us do their job like in the Baltic states ... so again lie from the USA that Germany didn't.

    And yes ... I am personally over with an US controlled NATO where the USA thinks that NATO and its members are only their willing slaves and tools for their own US interests in the world.

    And yes, I am so over with these American lies spread by trump and his brainless followers that I start to become Anti American (and I liked in the past the USA very much ... what a change)!

    And yes ... Putin, as much as he is a despot etc. ... is much more trust worthy as Trump and the USA, because Putin stands to his given word and dtands on contracts and agreements, but the impudent and ungrateful USA DOES NOT.
     
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  16. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good move. They are not needed and Germany is cozy with putin. Enjoy!
     
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  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You are preaching to the choir. Most Americans support a complete military withdrawal from Germany. Since our government doesn't know what it is doing why not expel all American troops from your country and replace them with Russian troops? We would cheer you on from over here.
     
  18. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Just get all US troops out of Germany. What they do after that is none of our business.
     
  19. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Why should they replace the US troops with Russian troops ?
     
  20. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    That will never happen, because the US needs Germany as a logistic hub for its wars.
     
  21. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    They are needed, because Germany is the logistic hub for the US and all its wars.
     
  22. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    why should he practice Russian in his spare time ?
     
  23. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Germany and France are leading the European defense effort and von der Leyen is one its champions.
    That's why they let Bunker Boy throw his tuntrums and who knows what will happen in the election.
     
  24. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Germany is historically one of the United States’ closest and strongest allies. The United States and Germany work side by side to maintain peace and freedom, and Germany plays an important role in NATO’s core mission of collective defense. Germany is also a key contributor to U.S.-led coalition efforts to degrade and destroy ISIL.

    That's all very nice but why does the USA need Germany as an ally? Putting aside our deep economic ties with Germany, there's many reasons why a unified partnership with Germany is absolutely essential to our role in the Middle East and Germany's role in keeping Putin in check so he doesn't go bouncing all over Europe sucking up little countries for 'Mother Russia', which is what his ideology and goal is, a leftover from the Cold War. In short, only Germany stands in the way of Putin's expansions into Europe. Without Germany, many countries are going to be very vulnerable to Russian aggression.

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    It's a lovely, surreptitious method to keep the US out of those stupid wars; it just couldn't be lovelier. US must get out of Germany now, then the rest of Europe.
     

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