Trump winery asks to hire more foreign workers

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Jiminy, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. Libby

    Libby Well-Known Member

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    I can't help but wonder why it is that this winery feels the need to use "foreign guest workers" in the first place. Is this all part of the "jobs Americans won't do" mentality? This job pays $11+/hr if I remember correctly from the article. Are Americans too lazy to do the job? Too comfortable living on welfare to work for $11 an hour? Or too unskilled? Too unreliable?

    Are you trying to move the goalposts? You said "illegal hiring". Hiring a foreign guest worker is not "illegal hiring".

    Yes, you've pretty much got it right. Except it's not even Trump's winery, it is his son's.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    "Making" someone work doesn't solve the issue for Trump's kid's company.

    We're working under free market economics.

    If you want labor, you have to make a job offering that attracts that labor.

    Guest worker programs are a method for allowing companies to NOT make offers that attract American workers. It depresses wages in the USA EXACTLY like undocumented aliens do.
     
  3. Fenton Lum

    Fenton Lum Banned

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    They're hoping to hire from shithole countries. Other than ours they mean.
     
  4. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, not exactly.

    In one case we have control over how many non-us citizens can apply for those jobs, and in the other we don't.

    Not to mention the other $100 billion in annual costs we pay every year for the "benefit" of illegal immigration.

    The two are utterly and completely different.
     
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  5. glitch

    glitch Well-Known Member

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    All of the stats coming from the border show a dramatic drop in illegal border crossings. They are now tearing down the temporary facilities they had to construct under Obama because they problem had become so sever.
     
  6. Libby

    Libby Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps if welfare was less generous, these jobs would be more appealing.
     
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Both the government and Pew Research have numbers on undocumented aliens in the US.

    They both say the number is between 11 and 12 million. They measure from time to time using the same methodology, so they can detect whether there is growth. There hasn't been.

    Your DACA thing is even more silly, as that refers to children who are registered in the program.

    Counting those in a registration database isn't really that hard.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Again, suggesting there are limits is ridiculous unless you state what the criteria are for selecting a number to allow.

    Guest worker programs have costs, too. They tend to be tight single sex communities that have problematic characteristics. They have costs on the community.
     
  9. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No they don't.

    What they do is look at all of the legal immigrants, then try to guess how many illegal aliens there are based on that number.

    It's a WAG, pure and simple.

    None of the people in the DACA program are children.
     
  10. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Details are unimportant.

    What is important is that you either have control over your immigration, or you do not.

    Clearly the former is better, for a plethora of reasons.

    Sure they have costs. Breathing has a cost. So what. That's why we pay people to run programs and figure out how to make them better instead of just opening the border and getting trampled by the rush.
     
  11. Fenton Lum

    Fenton Lum Banned

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    Perhaps if we did away with corporate welfare we could have a free market system.
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It's limited to those 15 and over.

    That's below the age of majority - within the Roy Moore range.
     
  13. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah.

    Six years ago.
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, there has to be an objective more than "control" as that can be defined as almost anything. Plus, there will always be some number of undocumented aliens in the US.

    I'd claim illegal immigration is under control, as the number of undocumented residents is not growing - it's controlled at ZERO growth!

    Many of the costs of undocumented residents are also costs of guest workers.

    I just don't see guest workers as a legitimate approach to suppressing wages of American workers.
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Registration has been open since then.
     
  16. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Legal migrant farmworker programs have been around for decades. The Bracero Program was first started in 1942.

    So what laws would be broken if the company operating the winery was notifying the government of their intent to hire legal temporary farmworkers?
     
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  17. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Uh, no.

    https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/consideration-deferred-action-childhood-arrivals-daca

    You may request DACA if you:

    1. Were under the age of 31 as of June 15, 2012;
    2. Came to the United States before reaching your 16th birthday;
    3. Have continuously resided in the United States since June 15, 2007, up to the present time;
    4. Were physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making your request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS;
    5. Had no lawful status on June 15, 2012;
    6. Are currently in school, have graduated or obtained a certificate of completion from high school, have obtained a general education development (GED) certificate, or are an honorably discharged veteran of the Coast Guard or Armed Forces of the United States; and
    7. Have not been convicted of a felony, significant misdemeanor,or three or more other misdemeanors, and do not otherwise pose a threat to national security or public safety.
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't see this issue being one of legality.

    Our government can make pretty much ANYTHING legal.

    Agriculture has gotten a somewhat limited pass due to arguments they make regarding America's ability to feed itself along with food prices for those in low income brackets.

    So, where is that supposed to end? Why aren't chicken factories allowed foreign labor?

    Why is wine considered a critical part of America's ability to feed itself?

    The Chamber of Commerce has in the past been in favor of opening guest worker programs for basically all private enterprise.

    Which one of these Republicans gives a rat's patoot for American workers, whose wages are depressed by the competition of cheap foreign labor?
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Those are just the rules that are used during periods when registration is open.

    I think you just misunderstood.
     
  20. Aphotic

    Aphotic Banned

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    The dude had an affair with a porn star and then paid for her silence. Color me unsurprised. He's a piece of **** hypocrite.
     
  21. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm with you on the issue of American workers, versus guest worker programs. I'm also with you on the issue of cheap foreign labor. I think there needs to be a complete rethink on the issue when it comes to visas granted for workers in tech and other industries.
     
  22. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you can't understand what is written on the official requirements website, as well as not understanding that "registration" is not open now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    lol - I'm very aware that Trump closed registration early, stopping numerous DACA applicants from renewing their registrations as is required.

    It's just one part of the Trump assault on DACA.

    And, NOW Republicans want us to trust that they will pass DACA legislation in the scant 3 or 4 weeks between now and the expiration of the DACA program!!!

    Sorry - I have NO respect for people who make proposals such as that.

    If it's so easy, it would be part of this bill.

    If it's not, then it must be considered there is NO POSSIBILITY of such a bill.
     
  24. Labouroflove

    Labouroflove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or that the requisite skill set wasn't available. Maybe experienced 'grape grower' was a requirement. Now $11.60 seems too low to draw experienced vinyard workers from Côtes du Rhône or Burgundy, but who knows. The visa's requested are H-2A's for foreign agricultural labor.

    I managed a Ski resort here in Vermont and we used H-2B foreign labor each winter season. Brazil, South Africa, Jamaica, Argentina etc over the years. You'd be surprised, I was, with the economic class and educational level of those that came. Most of these kids were from the privileged classes and here for the experience, fun, polish their English. Most had just graduated from University.

    I don't doubt one might get the same in the vertical market of wine making. Not here for the money but the semi free vacation and experience.
     
  25. Labouroflove

    Labouroflove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is a vinyard and the H-2À program is specific to agricultural labor. Maybe it's experienced vinyard workers able to pass on skills to local workers that is being sought?

    Cheers
     

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