Trump's Four Obstruction of Justice Crimes 100% proven in the Mueller Report

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, May 28, 2019.

  1. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    So nuke Russia and prosecute Obama for letting it all happen under his administration. It baffles me how you can’t see what’s going on here.
     
  2. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Right. That's not what you claimed.

    "Did not establish" is not remotely "no evidence" or "he's exonerated! Yay!"

    It means that it, in Mueller's opinion, there was not enough evidence to establish a conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Can you freaking read?
     
  3. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Err, huh?

    In English this time, please.
     
  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    They who? The legal case is over, there is no they, Mueller has resigned and his office is being shutdown, no indictments, no charges, no crimes. Had he found them he would have informed the AG and then the AG would have informed Congress.
     
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And ONLY the former matters, prosecutors DO NOT exonerate. What could Mueller have found that would prove to you Trump is not a Russian spy and did not obstruct justice. How would that proof manifest itself?
     
  6. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    So, you're hanging your hat on "not being prosecuted" even though Mueller noted at least 3 times that a sitting (on his brains) president cannot be indicted and the fact that he noted at least twice that Congress can address his behavior?

    That's a pretty weak hook.
     
  7. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Well, that explains your confusion about Mueller and his “report”. If it is any consolation he intended to hoodwink you. :)
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Congress doesn't adjudicate crimes. Had Mueller found charges he would have told the AG and the AG wouled have informed the Congress of such crimes and a desire to prosecute them. Then up to Congress to remove from office for an immediate prosecution or leave in office and the prosecution would take place when he left office. AS HAPPENED with Bill Clinton on the charges Starr found and had indictments written up. Mueller found nothing to charge. It's over. There are no waiting indictments, no waiting charges. The DOJ made it's determination, nothing.
     
  9. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Sure, it could be construed that way. It could be construed in lots of ways. Without evidence that Trump was involved with that however then there is nothing...not to mention it wasn't illegal to do that.

    As for the exoneration thing...prosecutors don't exonerate. They prove guilt. Muellers comments on that goes completely contrary to what every single other prosecutor in the country says and does. Exoneration implies that the person being investigated was guilty to begin with. That is not how the US operates, it never has been. It has always....ALWAYS been innocent until proven guilty. If a prosecutor can't prove guilt then the person isn't "exonerated"...they are, and always have been, innocent per our justice system. That one statement out of everything else Mueller stated was what tipped him from being an objective prosecutor to being a biased prosecutor. And yes, I know...Mueller is a Republican. That doesn't mean squat considering there are Republicans that are Never Trumpers.

    In the end, without evidence then Trump is innocent. That is not an opinion. That is a fact. And Mueller admitted he couldn't find any evidence that there was collusion...or more accurately, any conspiracy. Therefore, he is innocent.
     
  10. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The OSC report pointed out some alarming behavior by Trump and some of his cohorts. Much of this behavior is unprecedented. It is up to Congress to further investigate if they choose and decide if any further action is warranted. The system works. I see no harm in calling witnesses or perusing documents.
     
  11. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    I can read just fine. I also understand law. A prosecutor does not, repeat...NOT "exonerate". As I said in my last post to Jack4freedom, all a prosecutor does is prove guilt. If a prosecutor cannot prove guilt then the person being investigated is not "exonerated", they are innocent. That is how our system works. That is how it has always worked. Mueller is the first prosecutor to have ever claimed "I could not exonerate". That goes completely against what prosecutors do. The only time exonerations happen in our legal system is when someone has already been "proven" guilty of a crime in a court of law.

    Exoneration

    Look it up if you don't believe me.
     
  12. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Yes, what Trump does is fairly unprecedented in recent history. Perhaps in the entirety of US history. That can most certainly be debated.

    As for investigations...I don't mind investigations. In fact I'm all for them. And I was all for Trump being investigated for conspiracy. However....there should be a limit. What I object to is doing it for political purposes. And since Mueller could not find anything to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump conspired with Russia then the investigation should end. Nadler et al are doing this for political purposes. That has become clear to me in their conduct. Trump handed over 1.4 million documents to Mueller. He gave unrestricted access to everyone that worked and is working with him to Mueller. Trump complied with over 500 subpoenas for information. Mueller used foreign intelligence help some where around 50 times iirc. Over 40 lawyers and forensic experts were under Muellers command. Barr set a record for the most unredacted report to ever come out when it comes to investigations against an Presidential administration. The only parts that were redacted were those that were required by law. Something that Democrats know full well about but have ignored in their subpoena attempt on Barr to release a full unredacted report. (<---one of those conduct things that I was just talking about) Mueller had unrestricted access to EVERYTHING that ANY prosecutor could have dreamed of. Yet he could not prove any conspiracy. None.

    Think about that for a moment.

    1.4 million documents were willingly handed over.
    500 some odd subpoenas complied with.
    Had access to every single person that was even slightly connected to Trump's campaign, Trumps administration, and Trumps transition team.
    50+ requests of Foreign intelligence help.
    40 lawyers and forensic experts.
    ZERO executive privilege exercised.
    over 2 years of time to use in which HE, Mueller, ended...no one else.

    And he couldn't prove conspiracy. He couldn't show any evidence.

    Per our legal system and culture since the US was founded says that Trump is innocent.

    Saying generally: You don't have to like Trump. You can hate and despise him all that you want. But when it comes to Russia...this is a dead end. It's time to move on. Let's move the country forward and find ways to work together. Because if we don't then this country is going to suffer. Not because of Trump...but because people let hate rule them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
    557 likes this.
  13. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    None

    Mueller is a big hate-filled Deep State windbag
     
  14. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Mueller is full of hot air

    The investigation did not find any collusion between trump and russia

    And a former head of the FBI who allowed the Boston Marathon bombing to take place even after being warned by the russians is in no position to read putins mind now
     
  15. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    We have heard that a thousand times in the last two years

    And its always liberal wishful thinking
     
  16. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It seems that Congress wants further investigation into the incidents that the OSC decscibed in their report. Under Article 1 of the US Constitution it is their right and duty to oversee the executive branch. That’s what will be happening in the coming months. All Americans who believe in the US Constitution should be delighted. I know I am. Aren’t you?
     
  17. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Mueller never tried a single Russian because it was all a dog and pony show to influence public opinion
     
  18. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mueller is and has always been an apolitical public servant. He is known to be a Republican but not a guy who wore his political preferences on his sleeve. I do not get the impression that he is hate filled or emotional at all. Seems like a low key, professional, by the book type of guy to me.
     
  19. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are all hiding out in Moscow. He did nail a bunch of Trump associates though.
     
  20. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I agree thst the Deep State is in many ways coldly apolitical

    even chuck schumer expressed fear of them

    What the unelected elites in government hate, yes HATE, is a political outsider like trump beating the washington establishment at its own game
     
  21. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    One of the indicted organizations called muellers bluff and demanded a trial

    Which mueller wiggled out of proceeding with
     
  22. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do not see Mueller as a hater or a Deep Stater. He seems like a pretty straight shooter and by the book, conservative guy to me.
     
  23. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You'd think if obstruction was 100% proven, the subjective Mueller team would have reached a solid conclusion.
     
  24. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please explain then why he appointed all Hillary supporters to his staff?
     
  25. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do not know. Perhaps GOP members of the house can ask him when he testifies next month.
     
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