Trump's Travel Ban Gets Support From 13 States

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Merwen, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    By carefully choosing categories and etc you can minimize the problem, but it is obvious that the word has gone out to the international Islamic terrorist crowd that they were a bit precipitous in their plots against the US and should now bide their time until they have a tight knot organization here with plenty of innocents to hide behind. Islam is as much an effective political organization as it is a platform for worship.
     
  2. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    How convenient for you.
     
  3. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do not confuse "convenient" with "expeditious dismissive treatment".
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  4. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    You can take my post either way.
     
  5. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Claiming personal ignorance of Muslim's prior to 9/11 as a foundation for rejecting actual research is a rather poor excuse for an argument. There has always been religious intolerance from right-wing white supremacy/white nationalism (WASP Male supremacy) ideologies in America. Yes, it dramatically increased after 9/11, and even more so with the rise of Donald Trump that used anti-Muslim prejudice to win the presidential election, but it's always existed. It can also be noted that the rise in domestic Islamic terrorist attacks in the United States increased dramatically with the increase in the intolerance of Muslims since 9/11 in the United States. It doesn't always have to be children but children are unquestionably the most susceptible to being excluded from or society and becoming marginalized because they don't have a former culture to fall back upon as security in their personal lives.

    Actual research into the issue of radicalized Muslim's in America that are responsible for domestic acts of terrorism indicates that it's not the Muslim religion but instead the marginalization of the person that is the primary reason behind the Islamic terrorist attacks in the United States.

    https://behavioralpolicy.org/articl...-radicalization-risk-among-muslim-immigrants/

    We know that first generation Muslim immigrants don't commit acts of terrorism against the United States. They have their historical culture to fall back upon when they're disparaged by the religious intolerance of many "WASP" Americans. Their children, growing up in our schools, don't have the security of their historical culture. When they're excluded from society by "Little Johnny", who's parents are religiously intolerant WASP bigots, they're left with no social identity, they're marginalized, and that makes them ripe for recruitment by radical Islamic terrorist organizations.

    If, instead of "Little Johnny's" parents being religiously intolerant, they welcomed the Muslim immigrants, shared with them the actual values of religious liberty and equality in the United States, then "Little Johnny" wouldn't go to his elementary school and call "Ahmed", their Muslim classmate, a "terrorist" or tell hem to "go back to your country" (when Ahmed might have been born in the United States) and excluding Ahmed from the social groups in the school resulting in Ahmed's marginalization and Ahmed wouldn't be radicalized and wouldn't commit a terrorist attack.

    But the "racist/religious intolerant" right doesn't see, or more accurately refuses to see, the huge role they play in marginalizing "Ahmed" making him susceptible to recruitment by radical and violent Islamic extremist groups.

    "Marxists"?
    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Marxist
    I'm not aware of any "Marxist" ideologies being propagated by any political party in the United States. Even the most progressive of Democratic political leaders in the United States are capitalists and not Marxists. This is a term often used by very ignorant people on the "right" that has nothing whatsoever to do with the social oppression of people in the United States.

    It would be accurate instead to refer to the "social liberals" that object to intolerance, prejudice, discrimination, and the oppression of groups of people in the United States.

    To claim that the Social Liberals first identify a group, then ensure that the group is scapegoated (oppressed), and then see that it is (cause the oppression), and then "rush" to save it from the oppression it created is so absurd that it's beyond belief.

    So let's see. Blacks in America were not being oppressed prior to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950's and 1960's when the social liberals identified them as an oppressed group. Members of the LGBT community were not being oppressed in the United States prior to the social liberals identifying them as a group being oppressed. And Muslims in America were not being oppressed prior to the social liberals identifying them as a group being oppressed.

    Sorry but that boat don't float. The social liberals identify the oppression of groups, then document that oppression, and finally attempt to overcome the oppression. They don't create the oppression. The oppression is always a result of social conservatism based upon the historic WASP Male supremacy in the social, economic, and political institutions of the United States that the social conservatives tenaciously cling to.

    Once again an opinion of ignorance. As the life of Prophet Mohammed demonstrated he was first a religious leader and later became a political leader. The two roles were distinctly different. The religion and the politics are not the same.

    The United States is a secular nation. It's not a Christian nation, it's not a Muslim nation, it's not a Pastifarian nation. We're a secular nation established by the Constitution where all religious and none religious beliefs are equal. When Muslims, because of right-wing religious intolerance, are disparaged and oppressed, denying them equality in our social, economic, and political institutions then that's political and not religious.

    It is the violation of the American political ideology that includes religious liberty and equality that results in the marginalization of Muslims and it's that marginalization that makes them susceptible to radicalization by international "Islamic terrorist" organizations.

    It's not the religion, it's the politics (i.e. religious intolerance of the Right that fails to embrace the American political ideology of religious liberty and equality), that creates the Islamic terrorist threat in the United States.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
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  6. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why are you throwing them under the bus?

    How many people is that, 30-40 mil?
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
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  7. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Don't kid yourself.

    The root problem is Islam and the way Mohammed taught it.

    The disaffected always have his pernicious teachings to fall back on.
     
  9. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Just like Southern Baptists and Leviticus.
     
  10. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Christianity as a whole has been much more upfront about affirming it follows the New Testament...whereas Islam as a whole has never repudiated Mohammed's horrendous teachings as a warlord. The few sects in Islam that have tried are routinely persecuted by the rest of Islam, and Muslims are not allowed to criticize Mohammed--one can be put to death for doing so.
     
  11. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Check out the old testament
     
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  12. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You will have to reference that for me. I'm not a religious guy so I don't get caught up in memorizing Chapters and verse. I do the read the Bible from time to time and what I was able to get out of the Old Testament was that God pretty much let man have free will. He was given warnings and consequences of his actions.
     
  13. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    I would point you to Deuteronomy 13, 17 and Numbers 31
     
  14. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Like when they use Leviticus to call for the condemnation or even deaths of homosexuals because the NT 'neglects' to mention it?
     
  15. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    And what did the prophet Mohammed teach?

    The Prophet Mohammed taught Muslims religious tolerance and to treat those that were non-Muslims "justly" without prejudice or discrimination. Only those that committed acts of aggression against Muslims based upon their religious beliefs, that would "expel" the Muslims from their homes, were to be considered the enemy and to be opposed. Other passages in the Qur'an require Muslims to protect other religions, including their holy sites, to be tolerant of acts of aggression against them, to respect others regardless of religious beliefs, and even warns Muslims against those that would nefariously use the religion for their own purposes.

    "Believers, do not enter other people's houses until you have asked permission to do so and greeted those inside-- that is best for you: perhaps you will bear this in mind. If you find no one in, do not enter unless you have been given permission to do so. If you are told, 'Go away', then do so-- that is more proper for you."
    24:27-29.

    "Exalted is He who put constellations in the heavens, a radiant light, and an illuminating moon-- it is He who made the night and day follow each other-- so anyone who wishes may be mindful or show gratitude. The servants of the Lord of Mercy are those who walk humbly on the earth, and who, when aggressive people address them, reply, with words of peace." 25:60-61

    "Say, 'My people, do whatever is in your power-- and so will I. You will find out who will suffer humiliation, and on whom a lasting torment will descend. We have sent the Scripture down to you [Prophet] with the Truth for people. Whoever follows the guidance does so for his own benefit; whoever strays away from it does so at his own peril. You are not in charge of them." 39:39-41

    "Say [Prophet], 'Disbelievers: I do not worship what you worship, you do not worship what I worship, I will never worship what you worship, you will never worship what I worship: you have your religion and I have mine.'" 109:1-6

    "Say, 'People of the Book, you have no true basis [for your religion] unless you uphold the Torah, the Gospel, and that which has been sent down to you from your Lord,' but what has been sent down to you [Prophet] from your Lord is sure to increase many of them in their insolence and defiance: do not worry about those who defy [God]. For the [Muslim] believers, the Jews, the Sabians, and the Christians-- those who believe in God and the Last Day and do good deeds-- there is no fear: they will not grieve." 5:68-69

    There's also the ultimate warning from the Prophet Mohammed in the Qur'an for those that would violate the teachings of Islam by advocacy for violence against innocent people, that would attempt to force Islam upon others, that would be intolerant of the religious beliefs of others. It is the warning by the Prophet Mohammed to the radicalized members of the Islamic State and Al-Qaeda that advocate terrorism and totalitarianism that oppresses innocent people.

    "Say, 'Think about the provision God has sent down for you, some of which you have made unlawful and some lawful.' Say, 'Has God given you permission [to do this], or are you inventing lies about God?' What will those people who invent lies about Him think on the Day of Resurrection?" 10:57-60
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  16. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    IMO Jesus was unaware of how politically correct he would have to be to cut the mustard with Millennials.
     
  17. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Fine. Now get that across to all the terrorists operating in the name of Islam.
     
  18. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    Trump's ban is just politics and none of the countries banned have actually had any terrorist attacks come from them. In addition he does it in a way that obviously discriminates against Muslims and is unconstitutional and sends the message to American Muslims and around the world that we are their enemy. This is only going to be a recruiting tool for terrorism.

    What we need to do is restrict immigration of low-income low-education people. This will fix our Muslim problem and give us better immigrants.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
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  19. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    There are of course some highly intelligent and well educated Muslims who are quite willing to use low- educated ones to their own self serving political ends.
     
  20. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Sally Yates humiliates Sen Ted Cruz and crucifies Trump's Muslim travel ban.

     
  21. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    Most high-educated Muslims are in the middle class and don't have any big political connections. High-educated Muslims tend to be a lot more religiously moderate and are very good doctors, software developers, and engineers.
     
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  22. see you next tuesday

    see you next tuesday Active Member

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    Apparently, the UK is considering putting a travel ban on Americans coming to the UK - Too many of you are getting stuck in our narrow streets and its beginning to get a tiresome.
    There was a call not to ban all of you and that it wasn't fair on the few thin americans but we've decided a blanket ban is best.
     
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  23. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Nah, that's the blacks, and eventually the poor and the old. That's the thing about American Fascists, they're so DEMOCRATIC, they hate EVERYBODY, eventually all you have to do is be around long enough and they'll be coming for you too
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  24. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    That's disappointing, we though it was a ban on blankets, we thins do tend to get cold in Old Blighty's drafts but felt we might man up since your constant rain meant we just had to haul around more weight in wet bedcovers than the average 600 lb matron being winched to MacDonald's anyway

    Now WHERE are we going to spend these several thousand crisp American dollars? This Amsterdam place looks interesting
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  25. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Well, that would certainly be more convenient for your worldview than noticing how many similarities the Torah has to the Quran... :roll:
     

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