Trump's Travel Ban Gets Support From 13 States

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Merwen, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    It's hardly surprising, since Islam was at least indirectly derived from that, as well as Christian teachings which Mohammad unfortunately diluted.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

    https://www.google.com/search?q=isl...j69i57j0l4.23984j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    You really don't seem to understand that the New Testament is the basic document for Christianity. The Old Testament is what came "before". If Jesus of Nazareth had spent his short lifetime trying to refute the Old Testament, he would never have lived long enough to provide the teachings that make up the new one.

    You also seem to forget that Jesus operated as a human with human limitations, plus those which came from the necessity to fulfill Biblical prophesies from the Old Testament in order to give his new teachings legitimacy. He had a lot of constraints on what he could do and how he could do it.

    I'd like to see someone from today go back then and give it a try. It was a very complex social, cultural, legal, political, and religious situation, and he had to keep all those factors in mind constantly. The Romans were in control and supervising the way the local Hebrews administered everything, and the Hebrew power structure was down on anyone they saw as being a threat to their religious leadership. Instead of welcoming his contributions, even in healing, they were constantly trying to "get" Jesus with one religious rule or another--similar to the way Trump is being dealt with, actually, only worse, as Jesus was not wealthy. His Dad was a carpenter.
     
  2. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Donor

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    We know how every good "progressive" likes to shield Islamists and jihadists.

    Yes, let's pretend that the embassy bombings, the attack on the USS Cole, 9/11 and all the other Islamist terror attacks never happened and we're persecuting Muslims.

    And while we're at it, let's pretend that Americans didn't refrain from reporting the suspicious behavior of Muslims who went on to massacre our fellow citizens out of fear of being labeled an "Islamophobe" or a "racist" by people like you.

    Tell me, Jonsa, did you come up with that bullshit yourself or did you copy it out of the pages of Dabiq?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
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  3. moon

    moon Well-Known Member

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    Without blanket US support for Israeli atrocities these events would not have occurred. What goes around comes around.
     
  4. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    I think any terrorist, be they Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic, white, black, brown, yellow, or green with purple polka-dots should be publicly drawn and quartered. If we were to do so in the US, what would the demographics of those mutilated corpses look like?
     
  5. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Donor

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    Or you could schedule a speaking arrangement at Berkeley and wait for the American Fascists to come for you...

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, lookie here - it's our Jihadist-in-Residence running to the support of her genocidal Islamist champions. :cheerleader:

    Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
    --Qur'an IX:29

    "We hate you, first and foremost, because you are disbelievers; you reject the oneness of Allah – whether you realize it or not – by making partners for Him in worship, you blaspheme against Him, claiming that He has a son, you fabricate lies against His prophets and messengers, and you indulge in all manner of devilish practices."
    --The Islamic State, Dabiq No. 15
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  7. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I looked into those chapters and I must say we are going back a long ways. Neither Christianity or the Muslim religion of Allah was even part of the landscape. Sounds like to me that was being done is the God of Israel giving instructions to the people. It could even be a point of contention, that God of the Jews was giving land to them, the land was Israel. Of course if they didn't follow his teachings they also would lose the land.

    The only religion today that I know of that still teaches strict adherence to the doctrine of their faith is the Muslim religion. They still believe in world domination of the faith, strict obedience, following the law of the Quran and brutally subjecting the people under them to Sharia Law. I know not all Muslims agree and I guess they are considered apostates and this is what brings so much conflict in the Middle East.
     
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  8. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    The mistake the West made was in actually believing that Israel would be left in peace so its people could recover from their massive losses in WWII. The Mideast's treatment of that country has been a lesson that those of us who actually have lived long enough to see the entire process will not forget.

    Some dogs bite and should be left alone. The Mideast should have realized that since the 60's and acted accordingly. Pulling others into the generational vengeance you primed the voluntary "Palestinians" for because you are a vengeful people that never give up is a mistake which will eventually make all of you pariahs in every truly civilized country on the planet. It may have worked when the battle was over one solitary waterhole in the middle of a desert which could only keep one tribe alive, but it is woefully inadequate on the world scene and does not speak well to your adaptability, intelligence, or good will.
     
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  9. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense!

    In Fourth Circuit Hearing on Obama's Travel Restrictions, ACLU Lawyer Admits, Sure, This Executive Order Might Be Legal if Hillary Clinton Signed It

    Well, this was all pretty much implied from the lower courts' reasoning -- which always centered not on the law itself, but on statements Trump made (or was alleged by Rudy Giulliani to have made).

    Minus those statements, then the EO passes muster. It's facially constitutional. But they're saying a bad man wants to pass it, which makes it unconstitutional by prior statements.

    There is no such category. Courts distinguish between a law, order, or rule being facially unconstitutional -- the law or order or rule's own words themselves contain unconstitutional directives -- and unconstitutional-as-applied, where a mandate may be written in a way that is perfectly constitutional, but as actually applied by officials, is discriminatory. A good example of this, which courts aren't bothered by at all, is that "hate crimes" legislation is mostly executed in an unconstitutional-as-applied way: It's mostly a crime that only white people can be guilty of.

    But while those distinctions exist, there is no "facially constitutional but unconstitutional because Trump is a very bad man who uses very bad words" category.

    And in fact you can't even fault this directive for being discriminatory -- Presidents are permitted to be discriminatory as regards non-US-citizens coming into the country.

    The ACLU lawyer, quizzed by judges on this strange new doctrine they were arguing for, admitted that sure, Hillary Clinton signing the same EO would be perfectly constitutional, because she's not a Very Bad Man like Trump.

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/369674.php
     
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  10. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Maybe as you see it--IMO she humiliated herself by revealing the extent to which she is a self-righteous True Believer willing to accord the protections of our Constitution designed for American citizens to anyone that might wish to come to our shores for any reason, good or bad--even if that eventually leads to harm of those legally residing here.

    She also believes she has the right to prevent a legally elected President from doing his job of reinforcing the right of this country to protect its own borders. Precedents like this in fast moving situations such a plague or warfare are not helpful. This woman is so used to being protected she has forgotten that people in high positions have the obligation to protect.
     
  11. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Claiming personal ignorance of Muslim's prior to 9/11 as a foundation for rejecting actual research is a rather poor excuse for an argument. There has always been religious intolerance from right-wing white supremacy/white nationalism (WASP Male supremacy) ideologies in America. Yes, it dramatically increased after 9/11, and even more so with the rise of Donald Trump that used anti-Muslim prejudice to win the presidential election, but it's always existed. It can also be noted that the rise in domestic Islamic terrorist attacks in the United States increased dramatically with the increase in the intolerance of Muslims since 9/11 in the United States. It doesn't always have to be children but children are unquestionably the most susceptible to being excluded from or society and becoming marginalized because they don't have a former culture to fall back upon as security in their personal lives.

    Actual research into the issue of radicalized Muslim's in America that are responsible for domestic acts of terrorism indicates that it's not the Muslim religion but instead the marginalization of the person that is the primary reason behind the Islamic terrorist attacks in the United States.



    https://behavioralpolicy.org/articl...-radicalization-risk-among-muslim-immigrants/


    Reply: How do you explain the sponsoring of Muslim refugees into the United States
    by various church groups? Some of those churches are supported by contributions from
    White Anglo Saxon Protesants. (W.A.S.P.)

    America is a country hated by many Muslims, yet, every year they donates millions in
    foreign aid, food relief and medical relief to Muslim and Arab countries.

    Anti - muslim behavior actually happened with the Iranian Hostage crisis of 1979.
    Other incidents would be Khobar Towers, U.S.S. Cole, Battle of Mogadishu, etc.

    Trust me, Trump won the election because Hillary Clinton is a much disliked and dishonest person
    in the USA. If the Republicans had put up a Muslim against Hillary they would have won.

    So why wouldn’t Americans have anti - Muslim feelings after 9/11 when the news
    showed many Muslims cheering the World Trades Center collapse. There was not much
    condemnation from the Arab world either. Every so often you see on TV the “death to
    America” chants coming out of Iran. Personally I believe the feelings are more anti - Iran
    than anti - muslim.

    We know that first generation Muslim immigrants don't commit acts of terrorism against the United States. They have their historical culture to fall back upon when they're disparaged by the religious intolerance of many "WASP" Americans. Their children, growing up in our schools, don't have the security of their historical culture. When they're excluded from society by "Little Johnny", who's parents are religiously intolerant WASP bigots, they're left with no social identity, they're marginalized, and that makes them ripe for recruitment by radical Islamic terrorist organizations.

    If, instead of "Little Johnny's" parents being religiously intolerant, they welcomed the Muslim immigrants, shared with them the actual values of religious liberty and equality in the United States, then "Little Johnny" wouldn't go to his elementary school and call "Ahmed", their Muslim classmate, a "terrorist" or tell hem to "go back to your country" (when Ahmed might have been born in the United States) and excluding Ahmed from the social groups in the school resulting in Ahmed's marginalization and Ahmed wouldn't be radicalized and wouldn't commit a terrorist attack.

    But the "racist/religious intolerant" right doesn't see, or more accurately refuses to see, the huge role they play in marginalizing "Ahmed" making him susceptible to recruitment by radical and violent Islamic extremist groups.

    Reply: I have taken my time to re-read your comments and mull them over before I could
    answer you. All I have to draw on is pretty much my own life experiences. I was born
    during WW ll and my dad was off and fighting. My Mom abandoned me at about 3 and I
    was passed around to grandparents and aunts and uncles. My family were German
    immigrants, so, they were Nazis to many other Americans. When my dad came back he
    remarried and we had to live in a majority black neighborhood. Me and my sister were the
    only white kids in class for almost a year before another white kid showed up. I had my share
    of fights with blacks and one even sliced my sisters wrist. I eventually was excepted and
    just like other kids had friends and enemies. Over the years I seen other minorities go
    through the same thing and as far as I know it all turned out OK.

    Eventually my mom returned on the scene and after awhile I went to live with her and
    my stepdad. They sent me to a Catholic school and the dominant group were Syrians.
    Some first and second generation. I don’t remember really having any problems with
    them but I do know that there were a couple Jewish kids in the neighborhood and the
    Syrians treated them with distain and would gang up on them. The only trouble I ever had
    was if I dropped over one of the girls house's I would get flack from the father or the
    brothers. They had no problem showing their contempt for whitey.

    Now I want to relay a story my wife told me, who is 2nd generation German/Swiss.
    While she was grown up her mother from Switzerland held on to the old ways.
    She made my wife wear pigtails until she was 14. She was teased in school and had very
    few friends. One day she visited her sister who took her to a beauty shop and had her hair
    cut short and removed those pigtails. Her mother didn’t like it but it changed my wife's
    life in school for the better. She became accepted as one of them. She assimilated. When
    we Americans see your woman in Burkas and head scarfs and your men with beards and
    scull caps we see them as different from us and NOT wanting to assimilate as
    Americans. You choose not to belong. Which is fine, just don’t blame us for your shortcomings.

    By the way how does your Arab or Muslim countries treat immigrants and foreigners that live among you?
     
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  12. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oooh, are you out to lunch.

    I don't shield Islamists (to me jihadis and Islamists are the same) .

    I have REPEATEDLY expressed my utter contempt and hatred for ALL religious fanatics and in particular these murderous, ignorant, sexually deviant, sociopathic, TRUE APOSTATE scumbags. Why, I rate them right down there with nazis, jew haters, racialists and racists of all kinds, commies, religious fanatics of all denominations, and pedophiles. All equally disgusting morally and/or ideologically bankrupt.

    But you knew that.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
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  13. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    You haven't been in an evangelical Southern Baptist church recently, have you?





     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
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  14. see you next tuesday

    see you next tuesday Active Member

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    The streets in Amsterdam are even narrower than the UK! :0)

    We've banned americans from schools, cinemas and shopping centres for years now, (just in case) so i guess a total blanket ban can't be far away. We have lots of unarmed coloured people in the UK and there is the daily risk that one of you will "go out in a blaze of glory"

    It may not be a nice thing, but its all down to the need to be safe.
     
  15. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Much of what you say here is true, but the best way to fight an enemy is NOT to become like him. Stay true to our national ideals as Americans. Be open to immigrants for they bring more blessings than dangers. Truthfully, unless you are Native American, we are all immigrants. Blaming them as a group for all our national challenges is not only unfair, but absolutely disconnected from truth and wrong. Since 2001, more Americans have been killed by extremist anti-abortionists than extremist Muslims. Should we apply the same harsh measures against them as we're attempting to do against Muslims? Where does retribution end and compassion and understanding begin? We make the world we live in by the actions we take ourselves. As Gandhi said: "Be the change you want to see in the world."
     
  16. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would consider pastors like that hippocrites. They really can't call themselves Christians. I believe the teaching is "hate the sin but love the sinner."
     
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  17. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Everyone that wants open borders tries to reframe the conversation to make it sound like " if you don't want illegal immigrants to enter the country you must be racist". Why don't you get honest and admit there is a difference between an ILLEGAL immigrant and a LEGAL immigrant. I am most for extreme vetting of ANYONE who wants to apply for a visa to come to our country. I am also for anyone who overstays their Visa on purpose to be picked up and deported. I am against anyone coming to our country and trying to change our laws to fit their religious believes. The old saying "when in Rome" also should apply when in America. Why should Americans pick up the tab for health care, schools, welfare, jobs, food stamps, incarceration of criminals, ect. for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS?

    More people have been killed by ABORTIONIST'S than any group.
     
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  18. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    I consider them prime examples of Christian hypocrisy in general.
     
  19. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    ..........

    Many Christians are not hypocrites.
     
  20. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Many Muslims are not barbarians or terrorists.
     
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  21. cerberus

    cerberus Banned Donor

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    OP

    Well he did say he would do it ' . . . until we find out what the hell's going on!'? And topically, he said he'd 'drain the swamp of Washington' too?? Fancy that eh, a POTUS who actually does what he said he would do if and when elected. And another thing he said he'd do - join forces with Russia against Islamic State, and he's just done that too. Seems to be doing okay to me. [​IMG]
     
  22. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Christians aren't acting like terrorists or barbarians though. Wish I could say the same thing about Muslims.
     
  23. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Gandhi would be proud... [​IMG]





     
  24. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    IRA was fighting GB. It was a civil war and not a religious war even though the IRA was Catholic Ireland and GB was protestant. Many Christians on both sides condemned that civil war.

    I have never heard of that preacher before and I would say he does not reflect the attitudes of main street America.

    I am a Trumpster and I do support Trump's ban on Muslims from countries that are unstable until they are properly vetted. Spin it anyway you want Trump has not put a ban on proper people with visas entering the USA.
     
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  25. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with Muslims as individual people. My problems are with the Muslim collective as a whole as influenced and enabled by Mohammed's violent and salacious teachings--teachings which he made after his truly wise and religious ones in Mecca. As a group, Muslims are in league with the devil, and I do not want them in the US in numbers that allow them to get in political control.
     
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