Tulsa police: Multiple people shot at medical building

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Space_Time, Jun 1, 2022.

  1. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    That totally depends when you start to look at the numbers. I posted the the figures of Australia together with the US before the NFA spanning a decade. The decline was about the same. The difference between those 2 countries before that decade could be different.

    I got a new graph:
    [​IMG]


    It's crystal clear that there is a STEEP decline right after 1996. So there is a direct correlation between the policy shift in 1996 and the amount of violence.
    You could argue that the policies in 2002 and 2003 had little impact. I can give you that. But it's also crystal clear that the line keeps going down and down.
    The carnage in the US didn't go down that much at all. The US went from being "just" 4.5 times more dangerous to 11 times more dangerous.


    In no way am I going to accept that you call this "but it's just a coincidence that tough gun laws in Australia made the line go down, and weak gun laws in the US hardly did nothing"
    This is all in line with Canada and the EU who also got tough gun laws, and their stats about gun violence show how much more safe their countries are compared to the US.
    Are you seriously going to sell me that it's all a coincidence that you can not explain??? lol


    Right. So when you argue that the line going down, before a policy, and it still goes down afterwards, you conclude the policy had no effect.
    But when I use that argument that a line goes up, before a policy, and still goes up afterwards... I may not make that conclusion of yours.
    That's not intellectual consistent from you.


    Why should I need to prove that? Go prove it yourself.
    I got an explanation why the gun related violence in the US is so high compared to other modern western nations.
    Since Australia put in their tough gun laws, they went from 4.5 times more safe compared to the US to being 11 times more safe.
    What do you got to explain this? it's all just lucky, ey? lol


    Correction. They couldn't buy brand new ones, but they were still able to buy wel functioning well maintained ones. And there are some 200 to 300 million of those around.
    And why would a convicted felon go into a shop, to buy a gun, that can be traced back to him? lol
    All them American gun policies, you think were tough, are still terrible weak.
    While the prohibition of assault riffles did show a lot less homicides were done with them, when that prohibition was up. True story.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  2. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Here’s a true story. I’ve been very intellectually consistent. Every argument I’ve made has been an absurd conflation of correlation with causation. I have consistently used parody (of you) in an attempt to demonstrate how absurd your claim is.

    You have so little understanding of correlation, causation, data, facts, and logic you think my argument was a serious one. Of course I don’t think denying firearms to the mentally ill increases firearm homicides. But my argument that it does is as absurd as your argument that the NFA caused the drop in firearm homicides in Australia after 1996.

    You are saying lines on a graph establishes causality with NO supporting evidence. I said standing on my head and burping jelly beans allowed me to make 2.5 million dollars after the fact even though I had already earned 2.5 million dollars before burping jelly beans. It’s a parody of your argument meant to demonstrate the lack of logic in your premise.

    But alas I’ve only educated third parties because you took absurdity seriously. You go ahead and believe in burping jelly beans. I can’t stop you. But your argument isn’t logical so you only discredit your goals.
     
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  3. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The graph I put up shows an exceptionally deep decline in gun violence as soon as the ozzies put in their tough gun laws in.
    The US went from 4.5 times more dangerous compared to 11 times more dangerous because of 3 gun policies the ozzies pushed through.

    And in short:
    I got an explanation for it.
    You do not. That shows YOU don't understand it.
    It's as simple as that. Who cares you that you got a lot of talk.
     
  4. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Just stop, you keep getting caught making things up.
     
  5. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    LOL. You have the right to base your beliefs on the jelly bean theory. But you aren’t going to influence any critical thinkers with such silliness.
     
  6. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You are basically claiming that 3 policies are causing the Australians having this massive string of luck going, hence their gun related deaths are that low for that long. That believe is what you are selling. It's hysterically funny how you think that this must be the only way to explain the data. lol
     
  7. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    The massive string of luck that was the exact string of luck that occurred before the 3 policies? LOL.

    More jelly beans.
     
  8. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    And it didn't happen in the US.... what a string of bad luck. Amazing.
    Became more then twice as dangerous. well well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
  9. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh, in the US we prohibited felons and firearm homicides increased. Proving that prohibiting felons from purchasing firearms increases firearm homicides.

    LOL. More jelly beans.
     
  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    There never was a tight control over it. Private sellers don't do background checks, so such felons can just buy a weapon from those people. There are 100's of millions of weapons privately owned. The market is utterly massively big. The so called prohibition is full of holes. We all know it. You're just ignoring the dumb obvious why such a thing wouldn't work.
     
  11. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it’s time to educate yourself a bit on firearm availability to criminals in Australia. Enjoy.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?posts/1073488517/
     
  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Ah sure... when confronted that the gun control policies in the US are a joke, you just drop it and move back to Australia. I am taking that you are conceding to that. And last time I checked, I put up the figures showing how much more safe the ozzies are vs the US after a long streak of pure luck happened in Australia and not in the US, with a massive dip right after they implemented tough gun laws.
     
  13. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    More jelly beans. The Aussies were “more safe” when our firearm laws were identical as well.

    I will let you have all the jelly beans you want. I don’t want any. It’s cool that long streak of luck that began 15 years before the NFA only slowed down a little after the NFA. Lucky indeed!

    What is your favorite flavor of jelly bean? You like black licorice? Or green apple?
     
  14. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You're dishonestly leaving out that the ozzies went from being 4.5 to 11 times more safe since they put in 3 gun policies.
    It's all part of that massive string of good luck you can not explain.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
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  15. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    No you can not explain it. It’s the same string of “good luck” they had before the NFA. You like all the jelly bean flavors I guess.
     
  16. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    I have. Policies work. While you basically claim "just sheer luck 20 years in a row".

    hey... why should I explain that?
    [​IMG]
    https://www.businessinsider.com/us-vs-western-homicide-rates-2014-11?international=true&r=US&IR=T

    It's obvious that Australia, now having the same kind of tough guns laws fall within the murder rate of European nations and Canada.
    All you got to say about that is something like "it's just a magical coincidence". lol
    How very very convincing. lol
    You just do whatever is needed to hold on to your weapon.
    Rather creepy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
  17. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    You need to explain why firearm homicide rates declined the same in the 15 years before the NFA as they did the 15 years after. And you can’t. So you have no case for causation.

    Your opinions are amusing, but I’m really not interested in hearing them anymore. Lines on a graph do not establish causation. Especially when there is the same amount of reduction previous to implementation of the law as after. Sorry. You need to stop repeating stuff you see journalists write and critically think about the facts.
     
  18. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    Chicago gun deaths increased after implementing tough gun laws. How did that happen?
     
  19. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Why should I explain this?

    I'm sorry I need to repeat the stuff showing that every other modern western society, who got the same kind of ability to apply law and order.... ALL have more or less the same gun control policies and ALL have low gun related crime. While the US has hardly any gun control and high gun related crime figures. And you're just like "I dunno how this could happen. It must be luck". lol
     
  20. WhoDatPhan78

    WhoDatPhan78 Well-Known Member

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    because you can buy a gun somewhere else and bring it in to Chicago.

    You are really just arguing a point that shows there needs to be national laws on guns for them to work.
     
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  21. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    People in Chicago just import them form elsewhere. And there is no custom office to check if people are trafficking guns into Chicago.
    As if you did not know.

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-chicago-gun-laws-306468736022
    The majority of guns recovered in Chicago that are used or possessed illegally are traced back to other states with less gun regulation
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
  22. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    You are the one that called it luck. Just following your lead.

    Let’s try one more analogy. You have a car. You’ve had it for three years and kept records of fuel purchases and miles driven. You determine your car has been getting 26 miles per gallon fuel efficiency. You see an advertisement on TV for a fuel additive to add to your car. You buy it. You use it. You keep records of fuel purchases and miles driven and determine your car is getting 26 miles per gallon fuel efficiency. You come on PF and tell me I should buy the fuel additive because it helps your car get 26 miles per gallon fuel efficiency.

    I try and help you understand it isn’t the fuel additive that is making your car get 26 miles per gallon. You insist it is the fuel additive. I use you as an example of someone who does not understand the difference between correlation and causation on PF for a couple weeks. You play your part perfectly, showing how little anti gunners understand science, data, and how it is reported. You help me show not only are most anti gunners unaware of actual comprehensive statistics, they are unable to understand them when they are educated on them.

    I thank you for playing your part.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
  23. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    I'm not. I'm calling it policies that apparently work.
    While you got no explanation. And you got a problem here, that you're busy conceding to the point that policies are working... since you lack any kind of explanation why the differences are so fast.

    The comparison is an utter joke.
    You got a car, and you drive it around like a total nutcase. You pull up as hard as you can, and slam the breaks as late and hard as possible. You read somewhere that if you mellow down and cruise your car to a traffic light that's red, that it saves gas. You make sure your tires are at the right pressure. You start to use a different fuel. And slowly bur surly you get a better milage.

    And you talk to talk to your twin who only made sure only his front left tire has the right pressure. He says he's not noticing anything, and gave up on it. While he calls your policies and how it all ends up working... pure luck.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
  24. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    LOL, so gun control only works if every gun is gone. brilliant.
     
  25. WhoDatPhan78

    WhoDatPhan78 Well-Known Member

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    You know that's not what I said. You aren't a serious person,
     

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