Tulsi Gabbard

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Doug1943, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    That's because we're Russky spies. Pass the vodka.
     
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  2. Realdave

    Realdave Newly Registered

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    Look at our past wars. Afghanistan was horrible mismanaged & turned into a failed nation building effort.

    Iraq was a war based on lies.

    Vietnam was a war to stop the spread of Communism.

    But not relevant to our bases around the world.

    Some civil wars involve slaughtering civilians & that can be stopped like in Libya.
     
  3. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Who are you arguing with there? The neo cons? Who here is a neo con?
     
  4. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    What if we had the Iraqi, the Iranian, the Venezuelan, the Yemenis, and the Saudi Arabian Armies, and other non-allied armies, maintain their own presence on American soil? Do you think this would prevent wars, or provoke them. How did it work out during the Cuban Missile Crisis? We are talking about the illegal occupation by American troops on foreign soil. The only reason these Middle Eastern countries don't try to kick the US out of their country, is because they actually know the cost of war. But America can't keep bullying countries forever. Sooner or later, they will stand together, if we go too far.

    We need to police the domestic policies here at home, and not the foreign policy issues of foreign countries. Let them be as self-determining, as we are. Do you think that the Trillion of dollars wasted on waging illegal wars, could be better spent improving the lives of our own citizens? Or, is might always right?

    I apologize, if I have again missed the point.
     
  5. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In my opinion, the invasion of Afghanistan in pursuit of Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, and the toppling of the taliban government were necessary and justifiable.

    We should not have invaded Iraq in 2003.

    The war we waged against Libya was none of our business. And by the way, the Libyan government did not arbitrarily go on a killing spree of civilians for no reason. It was up against armed groups. It was a civil war, and, as always in a civil war, civilians die in the crossfire. The war we waged against Libya turned Libya into a lawless failed state, a haven for radical jihadists.

    We also waged a war - a proxie war - against the Syrian government. This country, too, was in the throws of a civil war or insurrection, if you will. But it was none of our business. Syria was no threat to anyone outside its borders. We never should have chose a side and then armed it. We were actually arming our own enemies!

    Iraq, Libya, and Syria are perfect examples of the types of wars the U.S. should not get involved in.
     
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  6. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Monetary policy got maxed out during the financial crisis, but that has nothing to do with the fact that MMT is nonsense for the gullible.
     
  7. Realdave

    Realdave Newly Registered

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    Afghanistan was horrible mismanaged. After all these years, we are negotiating with the Taliban & they will end up back in control.

    We should work to topple tyrants who are harming their civilians. Not by invading but helping those within to over throw.
     
  8. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not when the alternative to the tyrant is Al Qaeda or ISIS. Not when the alternative is utter chaos and genocide. The tyrant is the lesser of evils. That is reality in an imperfect world.
     
  9. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Where we make our biggest mistake is when we decide to get into a shooting war we don't get in with both feet. Even those troublesome ME countries can be subdued as most were before we 'set them free'. We treat war like it's a humane venture and it is not and never has been. The Japanese have never made a militaristic threat since WW2. As for Germany, well, it's Germany.
     
  10. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both Iraq and Afghanistan were subdued on a military level. The problem is the culture in those countries, or better stated, the cultures. These are places where tribe, sect, and brand of religion outweigh national unity and cooperation. We cannot fix that. The only way we can insure peace in those countries is to stay there forever, enforcing it with our resources and blood.

    Wanting to build unified, peaceful, democratic nations in those middle eastern countries that have huge cultural fractures is like trying to build a beautiful statue out of straw. A worthy ideal, but not attainable. We should have learned that by now.
     
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  11. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A major difference is that the Germans and Japanese cultures are not fractured along tribal and religious lines, like Iraq for example. In the aftermath of WW2, the Japanese didn't disintegrate. They pulled together and rebuilt the nation. One culturally homogeneous nation, pulling together. That's why the comparison isn't valid.
     
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  12. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Well you can put a square peg in a round hole if you use a big enough hammer and pound till it's done. Saddam didn't have a homogenous society but he had an obedient one. Either use the biggest hammer or stay the hell home. Pretending you can win friends in a society that hates you is a recipe for disaster.
     
  13. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, well, "a big enough hammer" means a lot of expense and blood and perhaps 50 years of occupation, maybe 100. No thanks. I'd rather we stayed home.

    Let's just defend ourselves and our closest, longstanding allies. It's not our job to police the internal affairs of 2nd and 3rd world countries who have little or nothing in common with us.
     
  14. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Staying home was my other option. Do it right or don't do it.
     
  15. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    That pretty much matches my view of how our foreign policy should have been conducted.
     
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  16. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How many remember the old SNL line
    "Franco is still dead".


    Well
    Osama bin Laden is still dead
    and what "change" have :flagus: experienced.



    Didn't even reconcile the duplicitous nature of Pakistan.
    Aid to Pakistan should have been ceased!
    Give them to the Islamist or Iran or Russia.
    So (f.) What?
    With an ally like that
    I think I would chose "The French".


    Moi
    :oldman:






    Canada-3.png
    Not an Ally!
     
  17. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    President Trump cut off aid to Pakistan in 2018. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-admin-cancels-300m-aid-pakistan-over-terror-record-n905786
     
  18. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  19. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not not aware of any U.S. military bases in Pakistan. If you are, please share the info.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-admin-cancels-300m-aid-pakistan-over-terror-record-n905786
     
  20. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  21. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is true, but the direct aid has been cut off, as well it should. This is the country that sheltered bin Laden. And I strongly suspect that bin Laden's partner, Zawahiri, is safely hidden in Pakistan, probably in a government building. I'd bet a paycheck on it.
     
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  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The sophistication of the propaganda - the money behind this propaganda - the sheer volumes of it is overwhelming and powerful. Propaganda dedicated and devoted to maintaining the status quo power structure.
     
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  23. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    There was a tike when I would have dismissed this as communist poppy ****. No longer. If you monitor the amount of advertising on all these channels, you realize that the mission of the media is to get butts in the seats so that they can be sold on the products sold by insurance companies like Geico, Progressive, Allstate, and Big Pharma like Pfizer.

    Pass the Soma. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World
     
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Propaganda - rebranded as "Public Relations" by Edward Bernays due to the negative connotation due to its use by Adolf - is a multi billion dollar industry. A big part of this industry is advertizing but, another use is for control of the masses by creation various narratives and necessary illusions.
     
  25. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Monetary policy is maxed out NOW in most of the world, and I see Trump abusing Powell for keeping them "too high" in the US, despite the fact they are now 1.75% and expected to go lower next year; cf with an average of 5.64% from 1975-2019 in the US.

    In fact, you are lucky Trump doesn't have the neoliberal monetarist hang up on government debt - he is accidentally adopting some of MMT's fiscal policy, by adding a cool $1.5 trillion to government debt (via tax cuts for the wealthy) - a debt that already exceeded the nation's GDP, while interest rates and inflation have remained near record lows.

    But the real crime of neoliberal monetarist dogma is the involuntary un + underemployed + those who have given up looking for work - over 10% of the available workforce - who are excluded from participation in the economy.
     

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