Tulsi Gabbard

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Doug1943, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Historic low unemployment.

    You don't seem to be connected to the real world in any meaningful sense.
     
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  2. Realdave

    Realdave Newly Registered

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  3. Realdave

    Realdave Newly Registered

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    All on a house of cards.

    When you borrow 1.5 trillion & pump it into the economy, good things happen....until that debt catches up.

    I can take our a loan for $60k & live high on the hog too.
     
  4. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So you think our current economic situation is due to deficit spending?
     
  5. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    No worries. Global warming will obliterate life on this planet long before the deficit spending catches up to us.
     
  6. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    Iraq was a war based on lying to the gullible public(WMD's), who have been indoctrinated by MSM since the Cronkite era.
    Viet Nam was a war based on lying to the gullible public(Gulf of Tonkin Incident). Who could possibly believe that Communism could take over the entire world? Only 4 Communist countries even exist, and Russia is not even one of them.
    Osama bin Laden has been dead for 8 years. Saddam Hussein has been dead for 13 years. Why are US forces still in Afghanistan and Iraq?
    The justification for US backed coups in Venezuela and Bolivia(election fraud) were both lies, to steal their oil and lithium.
    The justification to Regime-change in Syria was a lie(Assad gassing his own people). All evidence points to gas attacks being staged by US backed rebels and terrorists
    Our relationship with the Kurds was a lie. The Kurds illegally occupied the land in Syria. The US has no treaty with the Kurds. But we have abandoned Turkey, not the Kurds.
    We ignore clear and obvious human rights abuses, in any country that conforms, or are in agreement with our "me first" foreign policy agendas.
    We are complicit in the genocide in Yemen, by selling Billions of dollars in arms to Saudi Arabia.
    If we go to war with Iran, it will be because of a lie. The Gulf of Omar, will be another Gulf of Tonkin. In this case, the US will be taking on the Russia-China-Iran Axis. https://www.unitedagainstnucleariran.com/russia-iran-china-axis

    What do you think would happen if either side was losing? Start building your personal bunkers. All because we believe the lies.
    The nuclear treaty (MAD), was to prevent total human destruction. I guess they didn't think, that anyone would be so mad as to ignore these consequences.
    We do not intervene in any country, that is of no geo-political, economic, or natural resource interest to us?
    We impose sanctions and embargos, on countries or persons, in over 30 countries(Latin America, Africa, middle East, N Korea, etc). Thus increasing the Refuge Crisis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions

    It was the US that created Isis and Al Qaeda, in the first place.

    I do not nit-pick about our foreign policy. It is simple
    .
    We have no right to directly or indirectly, try to change the government of any sovereign country
    We should only help countries to achieve what is in their own national interest. Not ours.
    We do not sanction, or attack countries that refuse to obey corporate America.
    We do not covertly undermine the political, social, or economies of countries that nationalize their natural resources, or refuse to use US dollars when purchasing oil.
    Unless the US, its allies, its troops, or its interests abroad, are directly attacked, only Congress should have the power to okay the deployment of our military. Not just one branch of the government(Oligarchs).
    All wars will have civilian casualties. There are no exceptions.
    Do we really need 800 military bases and instillations, all over the globe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU8rQWh_qtc

    Do you think that if there were no American covert operation, which led to the millions of civilian deaths in the Middle East, that there would have been a 911?

    We need to understand, like the rest of the world already knows. America has the greatest military in the world, and can destroy the entire planet using their nukes. No country wants to destroy themselves. Especially, if they are not provoked with crippling sanction, threats and intimidation, illegal occupation, trying to overthrow their government, trying to steal their resources, and killing their citizens with drones. If we were any other country doing this, our leaders would be the next guest at Spandau Prison for their war crimes. I don't want my country to be known as the bully and terrorist of the world. We are suppose to be a nation of peace, hope, and opportunity.

    Like Tulsi says, "It doesn't have to be this way". Let other countries deal with their own domestic issues. Anytime we have interfered, the entire country has turned to crap. Without exception. If the government started killing your family and friends by drones, or indirectly(unaffordable health insurance, sky-high drug prices, unclean water, etc.), I'm quite sure you would be motivated to attack the government in any way possible. Mistreatment , denigrating, segregating, and demeaning Black American, is what gave rise to the Black Panthers, the Black Muslims, SNCC, NAACP, and other Civil Rights Activists Movements. ISIS, Al Shabab, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, Al-Nusra Front, are all still growing stronger, thanks to American funds, and the covert operations of the CIA. The only thing stopping us from changing direction, is greed, gullibility, ignorance, and social apathy.




     
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  7. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    U6:

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080415/true-unemployment-rate-u6-vs-u3.asp

    <<By capturing everyone who exists on the margins of the labor market, the U-6 rate provides a broad picture of the underutilization of labor in the country. In this sense, the U-6 rate may be considered the true unemployment rate.


    According to BLS data, the average annual U-3 rate for 2018 was 3.9%, while the average annual U-6 rate was much higher, coming in at 7.7%.>>


    Not meaningful to you?

    And I note you were unable to comment on ONE of the points in professor Harvey's refutation of neoliberal monetarist dogma. Not one......
     
  8. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    So ya saying Obama didn't lower the unemployment rate?
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    1. U-6 has been in steady decline. It was 12% in 2015. So the fact that it's down to 7.7% should be good news.

    2. I never made an argument for "neoliberal monetarist dogma" in the first place, so I don't care about "Harvey's refutation." I just think that MMT is for dummies.
     
  10. Realdave

    Realdave Newly Registered

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    Let countries slaughter their people. Maybe throw in some poison gas. What the heck. Allow terrorists groups to grow there. Let them build a few nukes while they are at it.

    Tulsi is naive.
     
  11. Realdave

    Realdave Newly Registered

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    The U6. The rate righties brought up when Obama was lowering the U3.
     
  12. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    Tulsi is certainly not naïve. Any intelligent person, with 7 years of political and 16 years of senior military experience, has her eyes wide open. She is a critical thinker, that does not simply parrot the same corporate talking points, from the same 60 year old interventionism play book. She is a leader, not a follower who believes whatever she is told by MSM and Wall Street.

    There are three basic responsibilities that all governments have. Protect its citizens(military and laws), Provide for its citizens(goods and services), and Invest in the talents of its people( education and training). If countries simply slaughtered their own people, I think that some of the people would rise up to stop being killed(rebels). Or, there would be a mass exodus(refugees). What do you think would happen if our government, decided to euthanize everyone over the age of 70? There would be a civil war. Governments depend on its human resources to grow and to develop. Governments can't exist without the governed.

    Again, WE CREATED AL QAEDA AND ISIS. They are growing BECAUSE of us. We will continue to make them both stronger. Can't you understand, that we are not the world's policemen. What we think is righteous and good, is only relative to our western ideologies. We have no right to impose our standard of morality, and sense of humanity on any country. We do not live in these countries, are have the same culture. We would be up in arms if any country tried to do the same to us. Can't you understand, that it is WE who are the terrorist. We simply convince ourselves that we are right, and manufacture our own consent. We are the terrorists who are responsible for the deaths of millions of men women, and children, in the Middle Eastern countries alone. Whether indirectly(proxy), or directly(war, drones). This strategy also applies to the unrest we have created in the South American countries as well.

    What chemical attack by Assad in Douma, Syria? Do you mean the deliberately withheld documents by the OPCW, that showed that the gas cannisters were actually planted by the US backed rebels? What would you expect a leader to do, when a foreign power is trying to overthrow your government? Just bend over? Do you even know just how modern(by western standards) the Syrian government really is? https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...-video-conspiracy-theory-russia-a8927116.html Just more of the same WMD MIC war propaganda, trying to "Manufacture Consent" from all the gullible corporate wannabes. What is truly naïve, is to think that our interventionism is simply motivated by our selfless morality and our boundless belief in humanitarianism. We are only motivated by greed, profit, and other selfish geopolitical interests. That's it. Why are we selling arms to SA, when those arms are being used to commit genocide on the people of Yemen? What spin would you like to use?

    Fear mongering is also a good tactic. In reality, no country wants to end its own existence, let alone the world. Building a Nuke is not a simple process. You don't just build one in your garage. There are many steps and materials, that are all monitored and managed, by many world-wide watchdog organizations. Why did we leave the Iran-nuclear treaty? So that now we can manufacture an excuse, that Iran is building its own Nukes to destroy the world? Remove the sanctions, and return to the treaty, and problem solved. Maybe if we also stop imposing crippling sanctions, droning families, denigrating Middle Eastern cultures and its people, selling terrorist arms, and abandoning treaties, we could also avoid the worry of having any nuclear terrorist threats as well.

    Unfortunately, you are just another victim of disinformation, and confirmation bias. I am beginning to believe, that it maybe part of our DNA to destroy our entire species, because of our evolutionary-installed herding instincts and hive mentality. Even Tulsi can't change Evolution.
     
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  13. clg311

    clg311 Well-Known Member

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    I was called by naïve by supporters of both the war in Vietnam and Iraq. You need a new cliché.
     
  14. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    yes. The low "official" unemployment rate.
     
  15. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    If they start a civil war, it is a civil war an internal affair. we should not get involved. How is the security of out nation threatened by a secular dictator in the Mideast? Who the hell kept Iran in check during the 80s, Saddam. Once Saddam was gone Iran was free to meddle with its neighbors. Tulsi is a hawk on terror. She takes all sorts of heat on the left for it. She will bomb the **** out of them but she will only use small groups of forces with a defined mission. I hope they call your boy up to go fight in that hell hole so some corporations can have access to oil. What the hell are we doing about SA genocide of the people in Yemen if we take your idea.
     
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  16. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    It's still bad news for the millions of people in that 7.7%, which represents entrenched poverty through involuntary un/underemployment, courtesy of neoliberal, monetarist dogma (eg NAIRU nonsense).

    That's because you don't understand how fiat currencies work, so you don't even know that private sector money creation, in our "invisible hand" free market economies, is neoliberal dogma.

    Btw, professor Stephanie Kelton (of MMT fame) has just made it onto Bloomberg's '50 Most Influential People in 2019' list, achieving the highest increase in internet searches for a particular topic, through her debates with Krugman et al.

    Dummies? Like Krugman, who found himself debating Kelton? The same Krugman also disposed of by Harvey...
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  17. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    OK, is that just your guess or is there data to back it up?
     
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    OK, so this is all about MMT. I'm game for another country to try it and we can run the data after a few years and see what happens. How about you?
     
  19. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ Tulsi Gabbard is sane - that alone sets her far apart from today's crop of demented Democrats. She should leave the party and run as Independent , Libertarian or Republican. :aww:
     
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  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You guys are both talking over each other.

    1) Low unemployment is good -but this is not the only indicator of economic conditions.
    2) "Modern Monetary Theory" - is a different topic - what aspect of MMT do you claim has caused the 7.7% in entrenched poverty and what does this have to do with "neoliberal dogma" ?
     
  21. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    "Good economic conditions" require zero involuntary unemployment, and above poverty minimum wages.

    Always pleased to inform.

    [True, the topic is Tulsi Gabbard, sorry for the diversion, but if we want her to be elected, (or Bernie, or AOC - with similar antiwar views), we need to understand the opposition to that desirable outcome].

    MMT describes the implementation of a Job Guarantee.

    Orthodox neoliberalism (with its false NAIRU dogma) promotes "invisible hand", competitive, private sector markets, without sufficient countervailing public sector intervention to guarantee above-poverty employment for all who seek it.

    MMT upgrades the famous formulation: "It's the economy, stupid"
    to: "It's available resources, not money, stupid".
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is simply not true that good economic conditions "require" zero involuntary employment .. nor are above poverty min wages a requirement.

    First off - we have ZERO involuntary unemployment by any reasonable definition of the term - there is always something someone can do - albeit it might be at ridiculously low wages.

    Low wages help to stimulate economic growth not detract from it. Are low wages a good and desirable thing overall ? - NO -IMO - but it is reality.

    I like Tulsi and Bernie for their anti war views. AOC - unfortunately - is too stupid and/or naive.

    A Job Guarantee hearkens back to the communist era in Romania. People were perhaps not rich under Ceaucescu - but they all had jobs - houses - healthcare - food and so on. Many claim that it was better under this system than the current system. Grass always greener on the other side of the septic tank.

    The problem with the current system in Romania is that things went from one extreme to the other in a short period of time. When Romania Joined the EU - the Big Oligopolies came in and took over various aspects of the Economy. The Oligopolies offer short term gains (which makes their entrance agreeable to the ignorant public) - for long term losses.

    How you describe Orthodox Neoliberalism is true. The problem with this laissez faire approach - is that it is a laissez faire approach.

    Too much regulation is bad - not enough is bad.

    One thing we can take from history is that extremes are bad - with respect to the above. Extreme "Socialism" (like Soviet communism) and Extreme Capitalism - both end up at the a similar place on the spectrum. In both cases you have a few elite owning or controlling most resources and means of production.

    Both Red and Blue Establishment in this nation pander to the Big Money Interests far too much. This has resulted in the scales being tipped too far in favor of these interests - and the wealth disparity. Laws on the books with respect to Ologopolism/Monopolism - anti competitive practices - are not enforced. Such nefarious practices lead to a decrease in wage competition which leads to a decrease in wages.

    Let me give you a personal example. I worked for many years in the chemical sales. There used to be 9-10 companies vying for good sales people. When you sold something - you got paid. Now there are 2 companies in the one sector in which I worked - both are massive publicly traded oligopolies essentially owned by the same interests.

    They squeeze every penny out of the sales person. If you don't like it - too bad - you only have one other place to go and they do the same thing. The finance people actually take courses in how to screw the sales people (not joking) - so you get paid much less for the same work.

    So where does this money go ?. If it went into the salespersons pocket - that money gets spent in the local economy. Instead that money goes into the pocket of some nameless faceless shareholder - who many not even live in the country never mind spend in the local economy.

    In this way money is siphoned out of the local economy - and the nation as a whole in many cases.
     
  23. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    VERY interesting perspective, I'll need to read this twice before I can absorb it all, but its an excellent point.
     
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  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Consider this. If you manufacture a shoe in the US - at a cost of 20$ per shoe - put cost of sales at another $20 - and sell that shoe for 100 dollars. The profit is $60 and you pay tax on 60 dollars.

    If you make the shoe outside of the US - in some slave labor nation - say at a cost of $10 dollars - cost of sales the same $20 - your profit is 70 dollars.

    The firm should then be taxed on 70 Dollars .. Right ? - That's now how it works unfortunately. That shoe is first sold (on paper) to a numbered affiliate in the Cayman Islands or some other tax haven. The affiliate then sells that shoe to "NIKE USA" for 70 dollars (cost of sales is 20) and taxes are paid on 10 dollars. All perfectly legal.

    This is why offshoring has been so popular - it is simple dollars and cents.

    Obama - very early in his first term - that he intended to eliminate these tax loopholes. He was then likely given a stern talking to by the Establishment and that idea was quickly forgotten.
     
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  25. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Does the above example explain why Apple for example had so much money that they were willing to repatriate?

    or am I misunderstanding?

    my economics degree came from the street which means,
    1) stay out of trouble and
    2)pay your bills

    With that said I totally understand what you're saying, in principle.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019

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