Turkey set to invade northern Syria, White House says, raising concerns for Kurdish fighters

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Bush Lawyer, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You don't stab an ally in the back. You don't act like an imbecile, and you for sure don't, if you have any rationality, give permission to a dictator to wage war, take territory, commit genocide.

    Wasn't 1.5 million Armenians enough? The Kurds must die too? For what? Nationalism? Different religious sects? A madman's lust for power? Where is the moral justification in this slaughter? I can't find it.
     
    pjohns, redeemer216 and Durandal like this.
  2. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Whether a group is a terrorist or freedom fighters depends on who they are fighting with.
     
  3. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Russia will also provide support to protect the Kurds. If the US stays in the northern area we would most likely be confronting the Russians. It could still happen if Russia starts fighting against Turkey which is a NATO member. NATO would be forced to fight along side Turkey meaning the US would be involved.
     
  4. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Shades of gray. I really don't believe anyone fully understands what is going on in the ME.
     
    Lil Mike likes this.
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    41,407
    Likes Received:
    6,645
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is not about having a full understanding. There is a difference between that and having no understanding or worse - an opinion based on some Establishment propaganda narrative.

    Fact - Saudi Arabia is a Strict Sharia - radical Islamist - totalitarian nightmare - of Orwellian proportions. This is not "shades of grey" - and not debated in serious circles.

    Fact - the driving ideology of all the extremist groups mentioned in the previous post - including Al Qaeda, ISIS, Taliban and so on - is the Saudi inspired extremist ideology - one that Saudi Arabia has been exporting around the world for decades - arming and supporting these groups in many cases.

    Fact: The stated goal of these Jihadists - one thing in which they are all unified - regardless of the name of the day they give themselves - is to implement Islamic Law - Strict Sharia. They hate "Secularism" - They hate individual liberty.

    Fact: The groups fighting Assad were waging Holy Jihad - the goal of which was to bring Islamic Law to Secular Syria. The people of Syria fighting for Assad are fighting against those that want to impost Islamic Law - they are fighting to keep their freedoms. People in Syria have far more freedoms almost any other Muslim nation on the Planet - and the people like these freedoms.

    The war in Syria is then a battle between two ideologies .. Those who want Syria to be an Islamic State - and Those who want Syria to remain a secular nation.

    Unfortunately - The US - along with the Brits and a few other Western nations - are working with with El Saud and the Gulf States are on the side of those who want Syria to be an Islamic State.
     
  6. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    35,358
    Likes Received:
    8,803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Kurds agree to Russian-brokered plan to allow Assad into their territory

    The West’s Kurdish allies on Sunday night announced they had agreed to a Russian-brokered deal to allow the Assad regime into their territory in a bid to spare their cities from a Turkish assault after they were abandoned by Donald Trump.

    Hours after the US said it was withdrawing all of its troops from northern Syria, the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) said it had reached an agreement to allow Bashar al-Assad’s troops into their territory.

    “If we have to choose between compromises and the genocide of our people, we will surely choose life for our people,” said Mazloum Kobani Abdi, the commander of the SDF.

    ... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/13/kurds-agree-russian-brokered-plan-allow-assad-territory/

    What will this turn into? Assad and the Kurds versus Turkey and the anti-Assad, formerly US-allied rebels?
     
  7. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    35,358
    Likes Received:
    8,803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Instead of dying, the Kurds Trump abandoned are desperately joining with Assad and Putin.
     
  8. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    34,658
    Likes Received:
    11,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Baloney. Obama said on several occasions that 'Assad must go' and Hillary Clinton echoed the administration's line when she was Obama's SoS.
     
  9. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    6,298
    Likes Received:
    476
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    I totally agree.
     
    Lil Mike likes this.
  10. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    8,795
    Likes Received:
    5,192
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I reckon this whole thing was pre-arranged/choreographed, Trump said in Dec/January he wanted to withdraw, that's when Mattis resigned. The Russians have been negotiating between the Kurds and Assad for months with no result because the Kurds have been holding out for their own independent state.
    I think this was very neatly executed, taking everything into consideration
     
  11. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I find people who tend to see things in black and white are usually the most uninformed people.
     
  12. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not at all, terrorizing is a military tactic. As such, it is morally neutral. To determine morality of an action, it’s necessary to determine who is the initiator of the action of force.
     
  13. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Turkey had designs on removing the PPK from it's border. They were going to do it with or without the US deployed in the area because they rightfully knew the US would not attack another NATO member. Russia is now getting involved to protect the Kurds. Trump is absolutely correct in removing the US troops from northern Syria. We are not going to fight Turkey because they are a NATO member and we will certainly not confront Russia. Russia and Syria have been allies for years now. The US isn't the only country that is fighting ISIS, and the US doesn't need to be there to beat ISIS.
     
  14. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You mean in issues of morality, or in issues of engineering.
     
  15. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Right. Good luck with that. The UN hasn't been very successful in determining who is using chemicals to kill civilians. They only can say chemicals were used.
     
  16. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I mean in all aspects of life.
     
  17. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Lack of data doesn’t invalidate a principle, it only hinders it’s application.
     
  18. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And exactly what data are you using to validate your principle?
     
  19. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, try flying a jet without absolutes, or perform omg brain surgery; or crossing the street to get an ice cream cone on a warm summer day. Nothing is accomplished without absolutes. Nothing. Including communication.
     
  20. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    8,795
    Likes Received:
    5,192
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Nonsense, the US withdrew "then" Turkey advanced, if your assumption were correct Erdogan would have moved months ago... not the moment the US withdraw.

    Russia is not "now" getting involved Russia have been involved for years, and certainly negotiating between the Kurds and Assad for months. If you ask me this was their plan to break the stalemate.

    You're fixated on NATO, the US can break Turkey in a matter of hours, financially and militarily. What we are seeing here is a prearranged plan, between Turkey, the US, Assad, Iran and Russia, unifying Syria because that is what is best for the majority of Syrians. If the territory in question had been Kurdish lands the Kurds may have had a leg to stand on ito independence, but unfortunately for them it's not.

    Maintaining US troops only gave the Kurds hope and providing them with the state they wanted would have fuelled another conflict.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  21. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That which is.

    In this case, using poison gas to quell an uprising. The principle is “it’s immoral to use gas because it’s too vicious” The data is the actual gas attack and who launched it.

    BTW: I disagree with that principle. The morality of gas warfare is determined by who is doing what to whom and for what reason, not the damage it does to body and soul.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  22. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I find the only absolute thing in this world is we all will die some day. Misunderstandings happen with communication because 100% absolutes don't exist for a variety of reasons. We all interpret things differently.
     
  23. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You 100% absolutely sure about that?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  24. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The US hasn't withdrawn yet. Russia is now getting involved with protecting the Kurds alongside the Syrian army. So long as Turkey is a NATO member the US can't and will not military fight them. The US can however sanction Turkey but we've seen sanctions don't work all that well when a country is being supported by other countries. NK is an example of one of them.
     
  25. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As an ex-aviator on a C130 we trained on how to better communicate with crew members. Communication requires more than just words. It includes body language and eye contact. It involves working off the same script so we all understand what we are talking about. That is why air crews work with the same guide book. So yes I am absolutely sure communication is not 100% absolute.
     
    Margot2 likes this.

Share This Page