U.S. Anti-Arab Terrorism

Discussion in 'Terrorism' started by Horhey, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. Horhey

    Horhey Well-Known Member

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    I just wanted to highlight this.
     
  2. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Imagine if you could take a threat, and just get rid of that threat so there isn't a threat anymore.

    Man, that sounds really complicating doesn't it.
     
  3. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    Forum: Political Issues --- Warfare / Military --- Terrorism --- U.S. Anti-Arab Terrorism
    Horhey, et al,

    I would say you are a bit confused as to what drives US Policy. And I would observe that you fail to appreciate the evolution of the various policies in the Middle East.

    (COMMENT)

    First, let me say that (however harsh it may sound) that, absent a special relationship (for instance the relationship of the Five-Eyes), US Policy does not react to appease the concerns of foreign entities trying to force a shift in US Policy abroad. In fact, it is most often the cause the more a foreign entity attempts to manipulate, force a change, or pressure US Foreign Policy (one way or the other), the more resistance it would encounter in responding to the attempts to manipulate, force a change, or pressure. Terrorism (particularly the face of Middle Eastern Terrorist) made the mistake made a fatal mistake. It upped the ante by making a spectacular assault against the US.

    I was a young Counterintelligence Agent, first assignment to Europe, site of a 1972 bombing by the Baader-Meinhof Gang and the June 1976 Revolutionary Cell bombing of the V Corps HQ (IG Farben Bldg). And I was in Europe when, in 1981, Commander of 7th Army, General Frederick J. Kroesen (with his wife) were attacked by terrorists using a Soviet-made RPG-7. I was in Europe when the Arab Terrorist, in 1983 attacked that occurred on October 23, 1983, in Beirut, Lebanon, the Multinational Force in Lebanon killing 241 US Marines and 58 French peacekeepers. (And the list goes on and on.) And I remember, after each and every event, us Agents not understanding and complaining that the leadership would not allow us to go after these various threats.


    The terrorist’s name is Dalal Mughrabi. On March 9, 1978, she headed a squad of 13 Palestinian terrorists who set out from Lebanon towards Israel, in several small boats. They were members of Fatah, the largest faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). At the time, Yasser Arafat was chairman of the PLO and Fatah, and Mahmoud Abbas was his second in command. Today, Abbas is chairman of the PLO and Fatah, and president of the Palestinian Authority (PA).

    The terrorists landed on a northern Israeli beach, where Gail Rubin, an American Jewish nature photographer, was taking photos of rare birds. Her work had been exhibited at The Jewish Museum in New York City and other prominent venues. She also happened to be the niece of then U.S. Senator Abraham Ribicoff (D-Connecticut).

    One of the terrorists, Hussain Fayadh, later explained to the Lebanese Television station Al-Manar what happened: “Sister Dalal al-Mughrabi had a conversation with the American journalist. Before killing her, Dalal asked: ‘How did you enter Palestine?’ [Rubin] answered: ‘They gave me a visa.’ Dalal said: ‘Did you get your visa from me, or from Israel? I have the right to this land. Why didn’t you come to me?’ Then Dalal opened fire on her.”
    SOURCE: Posted on February 2, 2015 by JNS.org[/quote]

    Fatah Brags That Abbas Started Current Wave of Palestinian Terror
    The official Fatah Facebook page published “an important announcement” heaping praise ... Sisters of Dalal,” referring to terrorist Dalal Mughrabi, who was responsible for murdering 38 Israelis, including 13 children
    SOURCE: the Algemeiner January 27, 2016

    But when the Hostile Arabs out of the Middle East took the action they did in 2001 (9/11), the US led international military campaign (AKA: War on Terrorism) began. Up to that point, the US considered these terrorist attacks to be just the cost of doing business. And under the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Cooperation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations [ General Assembly resolution 2625 (XXV) 24 October 1970 ] and the 18 or so International Instruments of Law, that an enforcement process began. International Law means nothing if it is unenforceable and is colored to favor activism by the Tyranny of the Majority.

    (COMMENT)

    The US has been operating in the Persian Gulf and the Mediterranean side of the Middle East since the late 18th Century and The Barbary Treaties (late-1700's to mid-1800's). Oddly enough the US Policy then was the focused on "trade and commerce" and not a hegemony. Of important note one of The Barbary Coast Treaties state in its articles that:


    ARTICLE 11.

    As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
    ARTICLE 12.

    In case of any dispute arising from a notation of any of the articles of this treaty no appeal shall be made to arms, nor shall war be declared on any pretext whatever. But if the (consul residing at the place where the dispute shall happen shall not be able to settle the same, an amicable referrence shall be made to the mutual friend of the parties, the Dey of Algiers, the parties hereby engaging to abide by his decision. And he by virtue of his signature to this treaty engages for himself and successors to declare the justice of the case according to the true interpretation of the treaty, and to use all the means in his power to enforce the observance of the same.

    US Foreign Policy, even in the Persian Gulf and Mediterranean region of the Middle East evolves. Events that occurred a half century ago, a century ago, and two centuries ago, must be evaluated NOT by the ethics, morals, and logic of today; --- but --- by the accepted practices of the regional powers.

    (COMMENT)

    The drone is just another advancement in weapons technology that extends the range. Whether a Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters (etc) is tracked down and killed by a human team, an armed and piloted aircraft, an RPG, a 40mm Rocket Launcher, artillery fire or ---- a drone, makes no difference. You use what tools you have that best fit the task.

    The claim of Expanding the Threat --- is absent any real indicators. Yes, it is still a dangerous world out there. But now, there are a number of resources that are willing to personally assist the various terrorist threats into the next life. Any day is a good day to kill a terrorist. You have to show me some serious numbers that indicate the interdiction of terrorist and associated threat is not being having an effect on the threat. As long as America is a major world power and one of the very last colonial powers, there will be threats. But America should never be coerced or intimidated to change Foreign Policy based on these threats.

    (COMMENT)

    This is not accurate. The various national decision making processes, including the national security decision making processes, is not driven by the terrorist threat. It is just another eventuality that needs factored into the plans. It is not a matter of "don't care." It is just that America cannot afford to cower and run everytime some radicalized and parasitic Islamic Terrorist decides that the Great Satan needs challenged. They make their challenge at their own peril.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  4. Horhey

    Horhey Well-Known Member

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    What drives U.S. policy is integrating the world into the "Free Trade" system under U.S. domination. I remember you now. You're the guy who insisted that U.S. military and intelligence officials didn't train Central American armies "to do that" i.e. kill civilians. Not only did they do so they actually oversaw the planning and coordination of the wars. Get out of my face.
     
  5. Chris Knight

    Chris Knight Well-Known Member

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    I never said that there should be indiscriminate killings of Middle Easterners. In fact my Grandfather was born in Egypt. Are you suggesting that because my Grandfather was a Middle Easterner that I should have been killed? Don't be ridiculous.

    What I did say is that there should be zero tolerance for Radical/Jihadist Islamic extremism that promotes and incites the indiscriminate killings of Western civilians. That any such practice or engagement in this ideology in our Western nations should be purged from our democracies through deportation or imprisonment. Furthermore any civil organisation or academic institution that accepts funds and engages in this Radical/Jihadist Islamic ideology must be shutdown.
     
  6. Chris Knight

    Chris Knight Well-Known Member

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    Bit of a Noam Chomsky fan I see. I have read some of his publications. Noam has certainly lived the good life up in the academic ivory towers, never once mentioning any gratitude for the USA providing him and his family a life of safety and relative fortune.

    I think you have an issue with knowing how the world works. You seemed to have not worked it out that it isn't a perfect world of peace and prosperity. It is more of rule or be ruled over world. Your fantastical utopian disconnected reality is of concern. It sounds as though you would prefer for the USA and Western civilisation to perish. If this be the case, why not pack your bags and go live in Africa or the Middle East?
     
  7. Chris Knight

    Chris Knight Well-Known Member

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    And you think it is OK for Radical Muslims to indoctrinate children to commit terrorist attacks?

    - https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2F41EEF0285BEEBFD69F2F41EEF0285BE&FORM=VRDGAR

    - https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...CCE50CEDB73031F5570BCCE50CEDB7303&FORM=VRDGAR

    - https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...7FBFE84F76A86D30780C7FBFE84F76A86&FORM=VRDGAR

    - https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...10BE8751FD9182B6430B10BE8751FD91&FORM=VRDGAR?
     
  8. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have more self-respect than to sit through six and a half minutes of that unadulterated and totally unprovable anti-Trump propaganda. Looks like fake news is really taking off big-time. But then hey, who the (*)(*)(*)(*) needs proof these days?
     
  9. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    Political Issues --- Warfare / Military --- Terrorism --- U.S. Anti-Arab Terrorism

    Good Afternoon Horhey,

    My, my. I see that you still have a handle on the use of an abusive ad hominem fallacy; in which my commentary (Posting #28 ) is rejected out of hand on the basis of some allegation that is irrelevant fact that is about me (the author of the commentary).

    (COMMENT)

    "Get out of my face." This phrase is an idiom that essentially says: "go away Just get out of my face and stop criticizing everything I do!" I don not believe that I have commented on anything of yours in (it must be more than) a year.

    vr,
    R
     
  10. Horhey

    Horhey Well-Known Member

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    I prefer a strategy that actually reduces the threat of terrorism rather than one that guarantees a never-ending war and the inevitable tyranny at home that will result from it. From both a strategic and moral point of view, what your advocating madness.

    All of you continue to ignore the solid evidence I have laid to back up my arguments.

    Point #1: "Why they hate us"

    So if one is truly interested in reducing the threat of terror a rational person would advocate that the U.S. change these policies, which should be changed anyways for entirely separate reasons. You have to dry up the passive support for the terrorists and then they would have nowhere to hide.

    Point #2: U.S. drone strikes create more terrorists and terrorist sympathizers than they kill:

    "Nearly 90 Percent Of People Killed In Recent Drone Strikes Were Not The Target; U.S. drone strikes have killed scores of civilians in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia" Huffington Post, 10/15/2015

    From the report, "Living Under Drones: Death, Injury and Trauma to Civilians From US Drone Practices in Pakistan," Stanford: International Human Rights and Conflict Resolution Clinic, Stanford Law School; New York: NYU School of Law, Global Justice Clinic, 2012

    [​IMG]

    The CIA also engages in what's called "double tap" strikes on first responders.

    [​IMG]

    And from just a practical standpoint, what strategic value is there in the indiscriminate killing of Arabs? According to former drone operator, Michael Haas, the mentality under the Obama administration shifted to where "a meritorious thing to do was to fire a shot, circumstances be damned":

    And why kill the family members of terrorists, absent credible evidence that they're jihadists?

    The facts on the ground:

    You have to be a real psychotic to support these policies. Most people who are informed of these issues are appalled by them. But go on thinking it's more important to "flex muscle" than to actually defeat the threat. That's a rather neanderthal-type mentality, actually.
     
  11. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    How about they stop violating the laws of land warfare, and hiding among civilian populations?

    Oh wait, that makes to damned much sense.

    [video=youtube;HZ0emqEjey4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ0emqEjey4[/video]
     
  12. Chris Knight

    Chris Knight Well-Known Member

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    I think the reason why you are attempting to formulate a utopian solution of peace, love and harmony is due to a lack of knowledge and understanding of the drivers behind the cause of this conundrum.
    You don't see that the fundamental religious-political ideology of Islam is so dangerously effective that it threatens the global order. Throughout history, the fundamental religious-political ideology of Islam has always been a violent threat to established and functioning societies. We have 1400 years of evidence to support this. Islam was designed from its inception to conquer, convert or kill.

    Such a global threat aligns the common interests of the USA, UK, Europe, Russia and China. The writing is on the wall for Islam, particularly in the Middle East and Africa, it will reform or the Security Council will declare war to protect the common interests of the global order. A few more jolts from fundamental, radical and jihadist Islam is all that it is going to take. Personally, I think that the reset button for Islam will be pushed within the next decade, unless Muslims abandon the violent conquer, convert or kill aspects of their religious-political ideology.

    In time you might grasp an understanding of how the world works.
     
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh, kind of like Christianity. First the Christians were fed to the lions, then later they fed the pagans to the lions.

    Multiple crusades, purges, inquisitions, even the fun little parties like the Thirty Years War, the Eighty Years War, the Scottish Reformation, the English Civil War, the French Religious Wars, the War of the Three Kingdoms... need I go on?

    Just those "Christian Wars" I listed killed from 3-19 million people.

    And looking at things by timetables, most of those deaths were less then 400 years ago. Meaning that Christianity was older at that time then Islam is today.

    Maybe I might start to get worried when Islam comes close to the 10 million killed in the Thirty Years War.

    Because unless they have killed 10 million plus since 1987, the Muslims are pikers compared to the much more civilized Christians.
     
  14. ararmer1919

    ararmer1919 Banned

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    You are a terrorist sympathizer and supporter. Your opinion is irrelevant. Your friends will continue to die by the thousands and that will not change until radical Islam is wiped from the face of the earth.
     
  15. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    ararmer1919,

    I'm a little slow here...

    (QUESTION)

    Who are you addressing?

    v/r
    Rocco
     
  16. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Agreed ... but you have to count one important fact at the digits please: General population numbers back then 400 years ago and those of today.


    This in the context of the killing possibilities of then and today makes a pure figures comparison of xyz millions of death at that time and xyz millions of dead today is not fair.

    Please always put a percentage relation to the total population .... speak:
    In the 30-year war, xyz millions of people died, which corresponded to xyz% of the local total population.
    In Iraq, xyz died millions of people who speak xyz% of the local population. :wink:
     
  17. ararmer1919

    ararmer1919 Banned

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    The OP.
     
  18. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I like you. You're a straight shooter.
     
  19. ararmer1919

    ararmer1919 Banned

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    I always try to speak plainly and not fear saying what is on my mind.
     
  20. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Horhey is a conspiracy theorist who does not have a firm grasp on reality.

    I largely ignore anything he says, because it is almost all nonsense.

    And not his friends, I doubt he has very many (other than other CTers).
     

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