U.S. Education Rankings Are Falling Behind the Rest of the World

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by cd8ed, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. Moolk

    Moolk Banned

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    Trump accomplished more than Obama despite having half the time and spending less money.

    People are moving from lefty areas to areas controlled by Republicans.

    You can choose to believe the delusion that dems are better, but it is in fact a delusion.
     
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  2. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    It has to do with our underfunded and poorly managed schools for lower- and middle-income communities. Those are the kids bringing down our PISA scores.

    upload_2021-3-1_21-56-51.jpeg

    https://www.oecd.org/pisa/
    That's not the case for most students.
    What are "REAL sciences?" Do you include computer science? We need to have students do better in msthematics.

    Anyway, our schools can't find enough qualified instructors in computer technology, the sciences, mathematics, or skilled trades. Teacher pay is wayyyy to low in these areas.
    I suppose there is some truth in your comment, but a big part of the problem is poor quality instruction in high school.
     
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  3. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    It sounds like pretty murky territory. I wonder what those incompetent, struggling parents will do when all assistance and benefit is removed. How they will treat their children? How will they put food on the table? You realise that poor parenting skill is as much developmental as attitudinal.

    I would say it requires the exact opposite - long-term commitment and patience. Of course, there is scope to not directly reward poor behaviour within that, but it must be within a supportive context. In these extreme cases, the goal is keeping the parents out of prison and preventing the children from developing/exacerbating developmental disorders - like their parents.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  4. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if you know that economic growth in Obama's last three years was virtually identical to Trump's first three.

    A6CB7934-C57C-4A1E-BC06-741223438550.jpeg

    Think about how many times Trump has repeated the lie that his Administration had superior economic growth?
    Yes, and they're making them more liberal.
     
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  5. Moolk

    Moolk Banned

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    I wonder if you know that Trump reversed the trend of the LFPR, or that he established an inverse relationship between LFPR and unemployment. Or that he achieved the lowest unemployment for blacks, etc.

    He outperformed obama by a long shot, while spending less.

    That is true though, they are making them more liberal. To stupid to see they are turning areas they fled to into what they fled from. That’s the world we live in though, I’ve prepared my life for such issues with good planning. I’ll personally be fine. But perhaps eventually people will wisen up, hopeful for their own sake.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  6. Moolk

    Moolk Banned

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    It have everything to do with culture. We are encouraging fake “sciences” like gender studies, encouraging liberal arts over sciences, holding back students who can achieve more by removing programs to allow them to because they aren’t diverse enough. It’s NOTHING to do with underfunding, that it’s false. It’s incomprehensible to think its a lack of funding when we spend so much more per student than most other places by a long shot yet still have issues.

    It’s not a lack of money, its a lack of common sense. Promoting the right things in our culture. Calling things like math racist because people are to stupid to recognize how to encourage growth in young people and instead choose to tell them they are victims of people that have nothing to do with them. Brainwash them into thinking they have experienced things they haven’t.

    Astounding lol...”underfunding”. Lol
     
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  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When I saw the Title of this OP - I have to admit .. first thought came into me ead was "This is not going to be good"

    We would rather spend the money on chasing the Taliban around Afghanistan .. apparently getting nowhere - and void of purpose. Surely we could be investing this money elsewhere.

    Folks do not realize the cost of these useless regime change wars .. In 2000.. the "Total" Military Spend was 300 Billion. post 911 - under Bush this spend rose to 900 Billion - talking Total here .. VA - Homeland Security - and so on.. Under Obama we topped 1 Trillion.

    Had we maintained 2000 spend levels - increasing with inflation - we could have diverted 500 Billion/year x16 years = 8 Trillion Dollars to infrastructure, education, technology - ramping up our economy to compete in the 3rd millennium.

    but Noooooo .. we be scared of those Al Qaeda folks with AK 47's - do try and wrap head around that number - and what we spent it on - and how far we progressed in our task.

    War on Terror - Pre 911/ Post 911 - how have we fared ? and was it worth the cash.

    Pre 911 - we had Al Qaeda who was supposedly headquartered in Afghanistan - but present in other locations - sympathetic to the Saudi Inspired Salafi radical extremist ideolog .. El Saud was a big supporter at this time .. not only various interest groups within El Saud - but within the Gov't. NOT claiming here that the Royals had anything to do with the planning .. in fact I claim the reverse..

    Al Qaeda was not in Iraq - but had a presence in Syria among the high Sunni population - a continuous problem for Assad at this time. In Fact after 911 we sent many Al Qaeda "Suspects" to Assad for "Questioning"

    After 911 .. Al Qaeda is all over Iraq - where it did not have much of a presence ... and they are still there ..

    Then - in 2011 - we start arming and supporting Al Qaeda - in Syria and later in Yemen - hand in hand with Brother El Saud - and numerous other nations..

    All of a sudden .. we are allied with Al Qaeda in 2 wars .. nary 10 years after 911 .. in an Orwellian twist of fate.

    So - what did we get for our money .. for our 8 Trillion .. on top of and above what it would have taken maintain the power we had in 2000 ..

    Trumps solution to the problem ? "Spend More" - added another 200 Billion + to the total - to do what I am not sure .. as those desert dwellers with AK-47s are still around - but not much else - certainly nothing requiring 1.2 Trillion per year roughly 1/3rd of Federal Revenue..

    Gotta keep that Military Industrial Complex rolling - there there for our own Good you know ... protecting us .. Big Brother will keep us safe.
     
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  8. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Different levels of parental involvement and indeed different cultures. Respect to the Asians, they don't allow any slack, ever. They want their children to achieve the best and they usually do. Ironically enough for Liberals, you'd think that the Asians who are(far less in number) than other minority groups would be highlighted for said diversity.

    In other words, liberals don't care about diversity from some altruistic method. No, they only care in relation to voting proportions. And they try to attract the rest with the "you're in it together" screed. Only problem of course is that they're not in it together. So you end up with the hunger games.

    A united country cannot be pieced together, but that's been the progressive strategy since 2008. How's it working out?
     
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  9. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Has the creation of the US Department of Education made a positive contribution to good education in the US?

    I doubt it.
     
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  10. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Trump accomplished nothing close to Obama, and spent at a faster rate than Obama did.
    and people are moving from righty areas to areas controlled by democrats.
    it is a demonstrable fact that the economy performs better under democrats administrations than under republicans.
     
  11. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You will find virtually every post that places blame on a political party to be doing so against liberals. Why are conservatives given such a pass on an issue that many would call of of the most important. Where is Republican leadership?
     
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  12. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It explains why so many Americans believe in lizards/cannibals/pedophiles conspiracy and trust politicians and not scientists.
    If I was Putin or Xi Jinping I would support his trend in America.
     
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  13. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, it is because of a different levels of parental involvement. When my kids were in an elementary school they wanted to learn how to play piano, so they wanted to learn one hour a week, we agree. One day in school there was a piano talent concert, I was very proud when my kids played, and then... there were Chinese kids playing. There was no comparison. I talked to their parents how talented their kids are. They told me their kids learn 3-5 times a week. When my kids were older, my son as a student worked in an after school tutoring program - he was shocked - most kids were Asian whose math/physic lever was well above what was required is school.
    In school my kids had Blacks friends (I am not lying, I have pictures to prove it) - I will not tell what this Blacks kids told about their home and their neighborhood because I will be called racist.
     
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  14. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Total right wing fake qanon news....
    There is nothing new about this. This has been going on for decades.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/13/us/education-study-finds-us-falling-short.html


    It's simply the America's capitalistic dream to cut short public funding for the sake to cut taxes.
    Both political parties are in on it. And ladies and gentlemen: we got a result!



    And if you would be honest. Right wing Christians stand more in the way of beter schools than "lefties" with ideas that the world aint as old as scientist say, Adam and Eve things, and what green house gases? Them lot are the laughingstock for the rest of the world. That's besides flat earthers being on a different ballpark.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  15. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have seen this also. The issue remains how do we fix it?
     
  16. Starcastle

    Starcastle Well-Known Member

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    Only trillions? Racist! Sextrillions!
     
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  17. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    What you say could be true -- if (IF) it were true that the parents themselves know anything worth teaching to their kids in the first place!

    If you've had many conversations with American adults, aged 21 - to about 40 or so, you probably know what I'm getting at.... :lol:
     
  18. Irrational thinker

    Irrational thinker Well-Known Member

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    Why is it that Asians don't need the government to make education better but blacks and Hispanics do? The results through the years continues to go downhill with government intervention. Rather than making everyone smarter, they are making everyone just as dumb and call it diversity.
     
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  19. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Over 1 million foreign students come to the US to get a high ranking university degree. 75% of them are Asians. And they don't need the US government to pull them through highschool. If they are willing to pay 100,000's of bucks for attending universities, than I see no reason that they also spend such lavish amounts on their highschool... back in Asia. Some settle in the US, where they are welcome with their high ranking university degrees. With a massive family capital behind them, they push their kids through highschool and pay their way into college just as easy. It's not comparable with black families who got pushed into poverty by apartheid rule that a person like Donald personally benefitted from in college. His dad did too, and was able to build a real estate empire that he passed down the line.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  20. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    19C8406A-03B4-4298-ACD2-990D27AA9B0A.jpeg

    Very slightly, with the emphasis on "very," and I don't think you can point to anything Trump did that made the difference. (You can't, can you?)
    Trump didn't establish anything--well, except that he's a liar and shameless braggart.

    89449A5C-0088-4156-B760-7D5AE78C2049.jpeg

    The LFPR is a complex stat impacted by demographics--birth rate years before, social trends like women working, and so on. Trump moved the needle a lot less than even George W. Bush's second term and we know how the economy was doing at the end his eight years.
    Unemployment was coming down during Obama's two terms...

    85818893-B975-4AC4-AF06-98E3E833EC42.jpeg
    Trump spent way more, not less, and he doubled the federal deficit to more than $1t before the pandemic. Federal spending was around $4t during most of Obama's presidency and jumped nearly $1t under Trump.

    1FDC6FFA-3075-45A8-82A9-961A71363505.jpeg

    I took the time to show you the truth. Are you going to ignore the facts?
    We'll see how you deal with the facts presented to you by an economist--me.

    You were wrong about everything except a slight uptick in the LFPR. What I don't know is whether you're mistakenly or deliberately promoting Trump's lies.

    P.S. I don't think Democrats did much for the economy, either.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  21. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    What a load of manure! We have far more programs challenging capable students than we had a generation back.
    More horse manure. We have a huge teacher shortage in the sciences, trades, and mathematics. Why? Because the pay is too low.

    E5EE3C9C-FFAE-463A-9502-A849AF8674A7.jpeg
    https://schools.magoosh.com/schools-blog/average-starting-teacher-salaries-by-state
    A lot is wasted...

    https://fanbuzz.com/high-school/texas-hs-football-coach-salaries/

    High school football stadiums...

    upload_2021-3-2_8-38-14.jpeg
    Allen, Texas
    See above about high school football.

    P.S. I coached high school basketball during the early part of my teaching career and golf toward the end.
    Your "racist math" accusation is absurd. Some idiot made the comment and it has been amplified in the rightwing echo chamber. I taught math a number of times. Anyone who would have claimed math is racist would have been laughed out of the room.
    If teachers had control, do you think they would have set the starting salaries I cited?
     
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  22. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Careful now, that type of thinking is decidedly rational, and doesn't fit well with your user name.

    You are exactly right, pouring money into the system won't solve the problem, when the problem is mostly parenting/cultural.
     
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  23. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fair question.

    Perhaps, Asians - like many other Americans regardless of their race and/or ethnicity - never bought the Government/Democrat/NEA/Leftist lie that the government is the key to a good education.

    Perhaps Asians - like many other Americans regardless of their race and/or ethnicity - realize that a good education starts at home and with the individual, not the public school system, the teachers, teachers unions and the Democrats who are in bed with them.
     
  24. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yup, and I think the declining value of Individualism in general and individual responsibility in specific have a lot to do with the problem.

    On the parenting end, parents have to value education and they have to instill that value in their children, and they also have to play at least a supervisory role in the children's education. A direct role is preferable because it's better.

    On the student end, kids have to value education and have to motivate and apply themselves to get a good education. Part of that includes teaching yourself the things you're not being taught in school. For example, most of what I know about History - a subject that teachers and kids these days are failing miserably - I learned on my own.

    The government, schools, administrators, teachers and teachers unions that are failing our children are only part of the problem, and our so-called leaders in our state and nations capitals should be helping people to take more responsibility for their education instead of fighting to maintain a monopoly that is clearly failing our youth.
     
  25. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You sound like an irrational thinker. The purpose of the government is to help citizens in need, Asian does not need help to encourage them to help to educate their children, other cultures/ethnics groups need it.
    So the RATIONAL solution is to invest in schools in Blacks and Hispanics neighborhoods.
    I doubt it will happen. Democrats prefer to invest in anti-racist agenda and Republicans in the religion.
     

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