U.S. Gun Death Rate Jumps 17 Percent Since 2008 Supreme Court District of Columbia v. Heller

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Galileo, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    You are right!

    My neighbor owned 7 guns including an assault rifle.

    One night he strangled his wife and children with a lamp cord. He then used the same cord to commit suicide by hanging himself from the rafters in his garage.

    You are right, having guns is dangerous.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  2. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Oh goody. I always love the "official" crap.

    I see the word "significantly" used three times, "increased" used three times and "increases" used twice in this seven paragraph article and yet there is never any numbers given. "Significantly" seems a rather general term. Did the PhD involved in the study not know any mathematicians who might have helped with his analysis? I find the definition of significantly to be: "in a sufficiently great or important way as to be worthy of attention." It would seem if the numbers were truly significant or worthy of attention, the article might have mentioned them.

    It really didn't need a rocket scientist or even Mr. Anglemyer with his PhD and "systematic review and meta-analysis" to figure this one out. It should stand to reason that when 22,018 suicides and 12,979 murders are by firearms that there would be an "association between" them. Rather hard to shoot yourself or someone else unless you have an "association" with a gun.

    My limited research and un-systematic review, has found that 100% of people who have been shot have had some "association" with a gun.

    Not even sure if I should address this one.

    It has been my experience in my more than 50 years of shooting that guns that are unloaded or locked never shoot anything; 100% of the time.
     
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  3. Old Trapper

    Old Trapper Banned

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    Then "demonstrate" it.
     
  4. Old Trapper

    Old Trapper Banned

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    Not sure where you get that from. However, I will just consider the source.
     
  5. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    asked and answered

    btw did you ever post what new gun laws you want=ones that you can PROVE will save lives (other than criminals)
     
  6. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    "...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;..." from the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution.

    After due process of law a person may be deprived of any or all of life, liberty or property. Therefore a person convicted by due process can be deprived of their rights or have their rights infringed.

    Based on this a felon would not necessarily have the right to hunt or bear arms. Self defense on the other hand is an inalienable right.
     
  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for agreeing that federal law does cover mental health - just I said, and contrary to your statement.
    As you have only responded with what you insanely think I must believe, you have not in any way stated what YOU believe the Founding Fathers meant by "shall not be infringed"
    So, again:
    Recalling YOUR words: "I would prefer the attitude of the Founders, and their time."
    What do YOU think the Founding Fathers meant by "shall not be infringed"?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  8. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    They have indeed been suggested, and it has been demonstrated that they serve no purpose in reducing suicides. They are especially useless if someone already owns a firearm.
     
  9. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    I would like to see this demonstrated as well
     
  10. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    http://www.nj.com/camden/index.ssf/2015/06/nj_gun_association_calls_berlin_womans_death_an_ab.html

    Thirty days. Or is it two to three months?


    Berlin Township police Chief Leonard Check said at his department, it's the latter when it comes to approving firearms permits and involves multiple organizations coordinating to give the green light.


    Scott Bach, the executive director of the Sussex County-headquartered Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs, couldn't stress the former time frame enough.


    "Permitting authorities are notorious for violating state-mandated time frames," said Bach, citing state criminal code that requires an application be granted within 30 days.


    Either way, when Carol Bowne was fatally stabbed by an ex-boyfriend late Wednesday night just outside her Berlin home, she had been waiting since mid April.


    Although the 39-year-old longtime hair stylist had filed a restraining order against suspect Michael Eitel, 45, the man allegedly attacked her shortly after 10 p.m. upon Bowne's arrival at her Patton Avenue home.


    The Camden County Prosecutor's Office, who is aiding in the search for the suspect who remains at large, did not plan to release additional information pertaining to the case on Friday.


    According to reports, Bowne submitted her application for a gun license on April 21 and went to see where the process stood two days before her death. Reports also indicate the police department had not yet received the results of her fingerprinting.


    Check said Friday that he did not wish to discuss circumstances surrounding Bowne's application.


    For first-time gun ownership applicants in New Jersey, a person must go to their local police station, take home forms to be filled out, submit to background investigations regarding their criminal history and mental health, be fingerprinted, pay pertaining fees and submit contact information for references. Police will then conduct a 14-point investigation and give an approval within 30 days.


    At least that's how it's supposed to work, Bach said.


    "This woman's life was tragically taken because of New Jersey gun laws," said Bach.

    Check said fingerprinting is done by an outside party, not just at his department, but for anyone in New Jersey seeking a license for occupations such as being a bus driver. Berlin police also mail out reference check forms with a cover letter and set of questions pertaining to the applicant.


    What if the recipient waits a week before filling out the form and mailing it back, Check posed.


    In all, the 2- to 3-month timeline may be a little shorter, but usually longer, the chief said, noting that he was not aware of any 30-day constraint for his department to sign off on an application when asked about the state statute.


    "Law enforcement agencies can't let these applications languish," said Bach, adding that "moving pieces" in the process like the ones Check noted shouldn't be to blame. "It really should be instant."


    According to Bach, the "vast majority" of states presume that if you can pass a criminal and mental background check conducted within minutes at the point of sale at a gun shop, then you can own one.


    That check is done through the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) database overseen by the FBI. Potential customers also fill out federal paperwork at the store prior to any purchase.


    Touching on previous cases where people faced jail time for improper transportation of weapons, Bach also went on to say that the only places in New Jersey a legal gun owner can have their weapon with them is at the gun store, a target range or while in transit to either of those two destinations.


    Asked if Bowne had brandished a weapon during her fatal encounter, Bach said New Jersey residents can also have the weapon with them so long as they are on property owned, used or possessed.


    "The bottom line is if you have access to a firearm, at least you have a fighting chance," Bach said.
     
  11. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    From the complaining done by yourself about the adjudication process in place being inadequate since it does not apply to individuals who are not formally charged.
     
  12. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    I mean if anyone had any evidence at all I would like to see it
     
  13. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    It has already been done. Law enforcement has a limited time frame in which to either approve or deny an application, and they routinely exceed the maximum allotted time allowed to them.
     
  14. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    So, you are correct, then what is your problem ?
    If you are correct, insulting others does not add to ones credibility, it only makes you look arrogant and condescending, I thought that was the issue you ascribed to the so called "mindless Right Wing "?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  15. Old Trapper

    Old Trapper Banned

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    So, you are saying that the punishment for a crime, such as smoking pot, can take away your citizenship, and the rights entailed, and thus make you a convict for the rest of your life.
     
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  16. Old Trapper

    Old Trapper Banned

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    I admit I am not politically correct for either the left, or the right. I will, and do, point out asinine comments, and baseless assumptions. And will make a point of the mindless attitudes of either side.
     
  17. Old Trapper

    Old Trapper Banned

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  18. Old Trapper

    Old Trapper Banned

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    Two points you are ignoring in posting one example to support your claim. Here in Oregon the background check takes about 20 minutes, and you have the gun.

    Having said that, it is apparent that the agencies are not following the law. Personally I think 2-3 moths is way too long. 2-3 days would be more appropriate, or even 2-3 hours. Again referring to Oregon, first time CDL's can take 30 days, usually less. A renewable takes maybe a week.

    Next point is the method of the killing, the use of a knife. Using a knife requires close contact, and in such a case the gun (any kind) is useless. The article does not say how he got so close, however, it matters little. An untrained party would never be able to get the gun out in time to defend herself/himself.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  19. Capitalism

    Capitalism Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tell that to Chicago.
     
  20. Old Trapper

    Old Trapper Banned

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    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  21. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    The Trace?

    Houston hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1982. Houston is decidedly blue.

    https://www.texastribune.org/2016/11/11/harris-county-turned-blue/

    The homicide rate in Houston is significantly less than the homicide rate in Chicago.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/data/ct-homicide-spikes-comparison-htmlstory.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  22. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly. I am indicating that it can take away rights. Those rights can also be restored. Loss of rights has nothing to do with citizenship.
     
  23. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Nope
    Possibly. If you read the Constitution, you'll see it allows for this, in full.
     
  24. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    As you have only responded with what you insanely think I must believe, you have not in any way stated what YOU believe the Founding Fathers meant by "shall not be infringed"
    So, again:
    Recalling YOUR words: "I would prefer the attitude of the Founders, and their time."
    What do YOU think the Founding Fathers meant by "shall not be infringed"?
     
  25. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    By your estimate, 3,200 lives could be saved each year if the US adopted Australian-like gun laws. That's not even taking into account a reduction in homicides. I think that would be worth it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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