U.S. Supreme Court Ruling: ATHEISM IS RELIGION

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Alter2Ego, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    atheism by definition is not a religion. It is the lack of belief in a god or gods. It is not an active belief in the non existence of something.
     
  2. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    Messages:
    7,391
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    ATHEISM very often (not always) is NOT non-belief...but instead is a "belief" in a direction other than the direction theists like Christians take.

    Many atheists believe (which is to say, guess) that no gods exist.

    Theists (everyone that I've ever encountered) guess that at least one god exists.

    Theists who guess that at least one god exists and atheists who guess that no gods exist...are two sides of the same coin.

    I'm an agnostic. I have no idea if gods exist or not...and I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess. So for the most part...I do not make a guess.

    Theists and atheists both can get caught up in their guesses...but that is understandable.

    I sorta disagree with the SCOTUS on this. Atheism often is a belief system...but I do not think it is a religion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
  3. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Incorrect. Theism is the belief of one or more deities. Religion is the worship of a given deity or deities. One can believe all the various God's exist yet worship none. They have no religion, but are a theist.
     
  4. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It actually is, or more to point, an active belief in the non-existence of those which one is exposed to. The moment you are exposed to the idea that the flying speggetti (sp) is a deity, you have to choose to believe such is true or believe such is false. Even taking a position of doubt but slim possibility is an active choice.

    Atheism is not a religion. Atheists don't worship anyone or anything. Atheism does need to be treated in the same manner as a religion for the legal purposes of protecting the rights of atheists to not practice any religion.
     
  5. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Atheism is not a belief system, no more than theism is a belief system. A system has organization and structure, which is why religions are belief systems. Atheism and theism are just beliefs.
     
    FreshAir likes this.
  6. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2018
    Messages:
    6,149
    Likes Received:
    2,857
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I believe that the court made a mistake. :)
     
  7. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    it is not. it is the lack of belief.
    no it isn't. a lack of belief in something is not an active belief.
    I agree with this.
     
  8. Capn Awesome

    Capn Awesome Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2019
    Messages:
    776
    Likes Received:
    428
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Thankd for the links to those court cases so I can look into it for myself.

    What do you have against religions? It sounds interesting. I'm looking to attend the church of atheism. I looked on google maps, found churches for all the other religions but can't find where I can attend the church of atheism. Can you point me in the right direction?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,773
    Likes Received:
    14,565
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hopefully.
     
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    in America, you are free to be a theist or an atheist, this is true

    and yes, that means you can believe in theistic religions or atheistic religions
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yep, so atheistic groups\businesses can claim tax-free status too
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Exactly

    be like saying Theism is a religion, thus Muslims and Christians both believe in the same religion - they may believe in the same God, but are still different religions
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  13. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A true lack of belief can only come from a lack of awareness. Once I tell you the Goddess Kalen, you either actively believe in her existence, actively believe she doesn't exist, or actively believe that you have not been presented with enough evidence to choose in either direction. While we may say it as a "lack of belief" in reality we have a belief in the non existence of something, unless we are presented with something that proves it doesn't exist, at which point we have shifted from belief to knowledge.
     
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  15. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    nonsense. a lack of belief comes from a lack of evidence to support the belief.
    No. I lack belief in the goddess kalen, as you have not provided any evidence of it's existence. that is not an active belief. That is no belief.

    no we don't. lack of belief and belief in non existence are mutually exclusive.
     
  16. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    23,673
    Likes Received:
    1,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I cant resist jumping in on this one because it draws a distinct line between beliefs and facts. This also puts the cabash on these people that the first thing they say is "well anything can be a religion", NO 'anything' cannot be a religion.

    Even if a theist presented the garbage those people did who if you ask me was a setup staged trial so canada could demand religion be a 'corporate affair', would have been marched right out the door as well. (then again maybe its just hard for me to believe anyone could be that uninformed of what is required to be a religion.....even the satanists got it right!) Thankfully religion applies to the individual in the US.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  17. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I will correct my first statement. A lack of belief requires either a lack of awareness or the presence of knowledge. And while I agree fully with your last sentence, the language we use, does not always reflect the reality of a situation. For example, the phrase "good morning". Nowadays, when we use this phrase we are actually saying, "hello". Same with phrases like, "how are you?". We aren't actually asking the question any more. It's a way we greet another.

    To be presented with any idea, unless it can be proven true or false, you can only hold a brief on it. Either believe it true, believe it false, or believe you don't have enough evidence to decide one way or the other. You can say you lack belief, but it simply isn't true.
     
    Kokomojojo likes this.
  18. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    of course it's true. Believing in non existence and lacking belief in existence are 2 mutually exclusive things. One is an active belief, and one is the absence of a belief.
     
  19. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My point is that you want to claim an active belief as a lack of belief. And naturally you believe that I am claiming a lack of belief as an active belief.

    In the same way that when a choice is presented, you always make a choice, even in choosing not to choose, so too when presented with any concept, you actively set a belief, consciously or subconsciously, about that concept, even in believing that you've not been presented with enough to believe one way or the other.
     
  20. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    no, as I pointed out a lack of belief is not a belief. It is the opposite, and by definition not an active belief.
    that is certainly what you are implying.
    [fQUOTE]In the same way that when a choice is presented, you always make a choice, even in choosing not to choose, so too when presented with any concept, you actively set a belief, consciously or subconsciously, about that concept, even in believing that you've not been presented with enough to believe one way or the other.[/QUOTE]
    no. lacking belief is not a belief.
     
  21. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    no. lacking belief is not a belief.[/QUOTE]
    You are not reading what I am writing.

    You have an active belief in the non existence of the deities that you have been exposed to the idea of. You are claiming it as a lack of belief. It is not. No matter how many times you note that lack of belief and active belief in non existence are mutually exclusive (true) you are not addressing my point that you are mislabeling one with the other.
     
  22. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    20,620
    Likes Received:
    8,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Atheism is faith in the idea we are here by chance.
     
  23. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    20,620
    Likes Received:
    8,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Critical thinking is out the window when you call yourself a Christian/Atheist.
     
  24. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, I lack belief in a deity which has no evidence. That is not an active belief. That is the absence of belief.

    I’m simply correcting you. I lack belief in a god or gods. That is not an active belief. That is the absence of belief.
     
  25. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods.
     

Share This Page