UK applies to join the CPTPP (Aka the TPP).

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by The Rhetoric of Life, Jan 31, 2021.

  1. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55871373#:~:text=The UK will apply to,UK exports, the government says

    I'm not convinced...

    Worth £9trillion a year to the UK, I'm still not convinced.

    It means being in a deal with Viet Nam, and they have sweatshops. (FFS)!
    I'm also triple checking that joining this won'y enter us into a deal with the CCP/PRC/China.
    Also, it doesn't include America even though Biden expresses a wish to rejoin the TPP (which is hopeful because then UK and US will be in a free trade deal if we both join).

    We've just left one bloc (the EU), why would we want to join another?!
    I like our new found independence so far.
    I know the CPTPP boasts not being about big government and open borders, but so did the ECC, once. So thanks to our time in the EU and everything we've achieved since leaving the EU, I'm now weary of big multi national trade deals.

    I wasn't sold on the idea of CANZUK (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, United Kingdom) because it doesn't include the US.
    Only if the US join the TPP will I be happier about the UK aplying to joing the TPP because being closer to the US I feel was the promise of leaving the EU.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
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  2. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't bet on Biden making it a real priority. Biden has his own issues with the deal beyond just whether or not we should be in it. I am not sure he is in a position to negotiate the terms he would want, or you know, has the energy to even commit to it since he is a lame duck straight out of the inauguration.
     
  3. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Lame duck??...what state of lame duck'ed'ness does one have to be in that he can't tell an office functionary to get on with it??....All he has to do is instruction the appropriate functionary who scuttles off and instructs the lawyers who pootle off and start discussions....it isn't difficult!

    Why does the US matter in this context? Do you think the US has anything really worthwhile to offer on the world market anymore?
     
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  4. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Right now his foreign affairs pootlers are going to be preoccupied with Iran given their announcement they are enriching nuclear grade fuel.
     
  5. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know, the only possession I own that was manufactured in the US is my Leatherman multi tool. It's a great product but very expensive compared to the opposition. It was a gift, I would never have bought it for myself.
    Tesla cars are something worthwhile to offer on the world market but unfortunately they are well above my price bracket.
     
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  6. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Because, US like the UK isn't in the EU or in the CPTPP and I love everything the UK's achieved being free and independent.
    Why can't the UK stay like that?
    Alas, it seems we were only allowed 12 months of being free and independent with 1 month of actually enjoying it. :(

    At least if I saw a buddy like the US join the CPTPP too, I won't feel like I'm losing something (my country's independence and my freedom) because if a free and independent country like the US signed up to the CPTPP too, it can't be all that bad for free and independent countries.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  7. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but, you're a farmer, no?
    I hear the US make a lot of agricultural equipment and supplies.

    I can count my own luxury items that were built in the US (2 high end Gibson guitars from Tennessee and 1 high end Fender from California) I also loaded my Gibsons with pickups built in California (Seymour Duncan brand), but that's just off the top of my head.

    I as a child used to buy peanuts from Lidl, and I remember seeing that the peanuts I enjoyed came from the US.
     
  8. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Upside...

    Joining the CPTPP will enter us into a deal with Japan that well see UK Nissan plants able to get more modern car batteries for their electric cars easier from Japan.
    And, the UK will be the CPTPP's 2nd biggest economy behind Japan.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  9. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    I fear that the UK won't be able to veto China from joining if the UK joins first. I'd feel more assured if America held my hand on this one, I really would (to be honest); I like/love what the UK's achieved in its first month; so while it seems, I'm allowed to be for 12 months free and independent; I'm going to voice this concern I have that UK joins the CPTPP and so does China. I really do want the power to veto China's accession into the CPTPP if UK enters the CPTPP first, and I fear we won't get that. As it stands, US and UK are both not EU, and at the moment, both not CPTPP either; I love so far being independent, and I'd just feel happier about entering the CPTPP if the US was a member too; as it stands, I'm not exactly what you'd call 'a happy Bunny' that Viet Nam are in, but they're a founding member and it seems a deal with a sweatshop is the price to pay for global trade; I do not want China in. If China joins, I want UK out/withdraw the application. I want CPTPP members the power to veto giving UK in the CPTPP the power to veto China's CPTPP accession. I do not want to be in another deal with the CCP! I mean, UK sort of is in one with the CCP, but the Sino-British Joint Declaration is probably null and void now, so I believe that EU/China's CAI is my only objection to the EU joining the CPTPP; What the EU,does it up to the EU, trade with China, I honestly don't care. But I do not want to join in a deal with the CCP. I'd want the UK to veto any EU accession into the CPTPP too if UK were able to veto/and block China from entering the CPTPP and therefore block China from another deal with the UK, I do not want a deal with the CCP and if EU and China are in CAI then that would be too much of a risk and I do not think we could risk Chinese products linked to slavery being bought into the back door through the EU, unless EU's CAI fell through and it was blocked, then what do I care? EU in the CPTPP might solve problems between the EU and the UK trade, if the EU doesn't do CAI. If it's in CAI and applies to join the CPTPP after the UK, I'd want to veto the EU too. I believe I've said that enough for even speakers of other languages to get my point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  10. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ..because the UK isn't an island...:D...it exists within supply chains and banking syndication and multi-national corporate entities and and and. The difference being the EU was small trade pact tagged onto a massive political fiasco whilst whereas trade pacts are just that.....kinda.....
     
  11. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps he could conjure up another one. Don't worry about Iran. It'll be left to the Europeans/China and the rest of the world to sort that out. The US has a very one dimensional view of the world and not really a very good one at that - I'm sure we'll see the usual cavalcade of "bomb 'em" advocates.
     
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  12. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    You don;t need the US on this one as we already have comprehensive trade agreement with most of these countries so its benefits are limited - the main additional benefits are the e-commerce sections of the agreement.
    Isn't that covered under CEPA?
     
  13. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    It's just, America would never join the EU, for a reason.
    It's too federalist with a centralised currency.
    No we're out of the EU, we're like America, not EU, not CPTPP.
    In that month we've ratified the Brexit deal on the UK side while the EU is asking for an extension; banning imports linked to slave labour from entering our countries in solidarity with Canada and the US while the EU is ratifying CAI with the CCP. The UK has left the EU in the dust with our vaccine roll out while the EU acted rash and jingoistic towards Brexit over that then quickly withdrew.
    and, alas, after the good old days of 1 month, we also formerly started the process of joining the CPTPP.
    But America still gets to be, not EU, not CPTPP, and if the past month has shown me anything, it's that I want that.
    If they joined the CPTPP too, I'd be happier knowing my freedoms and independence I won and had for a month, might last longer/forever, IDK.
    Just would help knowing this isn't going to turn into another flag waving EU hostile to America.


    ...https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/01/31/business/britain-pacific-trade-pact/#:~:text=The CPTPP application will come,years of complex trade discussions.
    China!!! I do not want to be in another deal with the CCP after the Sino-British Joint Declaration fell through and our decision to ban imports linked to slavery in China from entering our country.
    They don't respect copyright ripping off our cars, they have no intellectual property; they're a Communist Hell Hole and women in China go around hunting women in China for adultery and claim it's okay to beat up a home wrecker, remove her clothes so she can't go anywhere, and beat the crap out of her!
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ands-wives-catch-shameless-home-wreckers.html
    [​IMG]
    No! Not China!
    I'd want to vote before joining the CPTPP if the CCP join.
    We voted to join the EEC
    We voted to leave the EU
    We didn't vote for the CPTPP, why we joining after a month for?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  14. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    I just made this; it's not live yet. It becomes live and seen online and found if searched after 5 signtaures, I signed it upon making it, so, it needs 4 more people to sign this before it becomes live now.

    This is me doing my best lol... Now nobody can say that I didn't try or do anything.

    I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?

    Click this link to sign the petition:
    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/573683/sponsors/new?token=afEOxmYMu86DzHcYHlvC

    My petition:

    Negotiate UK joining the CPTPP with CPTPP members give all the power of veto.

    We voted to join the EEC We voted to leave the EU We did not vote to join the CPTPP, but we've formally began the process. So at least safe us the potential of being in another deal with the CCP. To date China, South Korea Taiwan and Thailand express interest in joining the CPTPP too.

    Because since December 31st 2020 We banned the import of products linked to slavery into the UK from China . The Sino-British Joint Deceleration is as good as null and void. UK and China being in the CPTPP will undermine this unless we as a CPTPP member give all CPTPP countries the same right to veto as needed by the UK to do upon successful entry into the CPTPP, so can the Rt Hon Liz Truss please consider including a power of veto in UK's entering the CPTPP for UK and all future members too.
     
  15. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Actually I'm a chef who lives on a farm. The equipment we have is almost exclusively British. All the tractors are David Browns the threshing drum is a Ransome and as far as I know all the ploughs, drills, discs etc are British. The only large piece of equipment I can think of that isn't is the Claas combine harvester which I believe is German.
     
  16. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    If you don't want to trade with countries which use slave labour you might be disappointed to learn about the amount of goods produced in the American prison system.
     
  17. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Yeah, but, prisoners in the US aren't put in prison for meditating in the park...
    Falun Gong prisoners in the CCP should be so lucky as to end up as slaves...
    There's a reason CCP don't like talking about organ donation.
    (They harvest organs from the Falun Gong who are in prison for the crime of being Fulan Gong).
    http://sites.bu.edu/dafa/help-falun...-un-to-stop-forced-organ-harvesting-in-china/

    I am allowed to choose the US over the CCP, for now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  18. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  19. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    The EU and the US are far closer than you seem able to accept.
    Both are large diverse continents brought together under a common currency, free trade and movement within their borders. If you like the US so much you should love the EU.
     
  20. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Well there is really only one dimension that matters---oil. It is a bit of a catch-22 for the world. We cannot in good faith "go green" while simultaneously denying the middle east access to nuclear power. FF is their only wide-spread natural resource throughout the region.
     
  21. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Well...maybe...but oil is a commodity which in my view attracts maybe only a marginal part in this larger power play - influence and soft power are the main actors in this region when it comes to Iran and what to do with the remnants of what the Americans did to its old vasal state. Let me re-phrase that...American influence was phucked when they lost grip of the Shah, their only play was the usual hamfisted show of military strength and threatened use of military power through their bases in Saudi Arabia and Turkey and Israel which was good for a few years...unfortunately like all empires they are losing grip on all them now so what remains for America.....the impotent bomb 'em option.... which they will not do because....well lets face it American just isn't very good at waging war. Which basically leaves the middle east up to China and Europe because Russia has its hands full with its land grab in Syria which gives it access to the Med which they have been after for decades....they're happy bunnies....
    Oil is only a teensie part of what's going on.... imagine if Chinese Muslims got hold of a nuclear weapon....
     
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  22. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    The EU is not the United States of Europe.
    The EU hasn't earned what the US have.
    If you like the EU so much, you though, should love the US by the same logic you tried to peddle there.
    I however feel the EU is more like the USSR, because the EU Parliament is a like the Supreme Soviet where people in positions of power are appointed, not elected.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  23. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    I'm not a fan of the CPTPP.

    No one asked the British voter if we want to join.
    China are interested in joining and UK won't be able to block that, so could be in a free trade deal with the CCP thanks to the CPTPP.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  24. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    The EU Parliament is elected.
    Nigel Farage, for example, was an elected member of the European Parliament or MEP.
    BTW I do like the US, it's just some of their food quality regulations I'm not so keen on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  25. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    The EU Commission is appointed, which is a key difference between the EU and the US.
    Hell, the UK has more in common with the EU than it does the US, bad things, things we should abolish to be free of appointed all powerful unelected officials.
    UK's House of Lords makes the UK and Iran alike as we get classified as Theocracy. The House of Lords is just as appointed and unelected as the EU Commission.

    My reservations about UK joining the CPTPP aren't because I feel the EU is better.
    My reservations are this being a potential of UK being in a deal with the CCP, and; unlike joining the EEC or leaving the EU, no one bothered to ask me, we didn't get a vote, and we won't get a veto to block being in a deal with the CCP should China wish to join.
    I don't like it, America aren't even a member...
    I like not being in the EU, and what if there's a reason, a real good reason, why the US won't want to join the CPTPP, and what if China do?
    I hate that nobody asked the people, and that this now risks us being in a trade deal with the CCP and not America.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021

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