UK - Longer sentence for killing transgender than a normal person

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Speeders R Murderers, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. Speeders R Murderers

    Speeders R Murderers Banned

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    More super-brazen discrimination but it's allowed!!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16089715

    8 December 2011 Last updated at 10:36

    The Home Office has announced longer jail sentences for murders motivated by hostility to a transgender person.

    The starting point used by the judge to set the tariff - or minimum term - will double from 15 to 30 years.

    Justice Secretary Ken Clarke said: "Hate crimes are abhorrent, they leave sections of society living in fear and at risk of unprovoked violence. "These proposals make clear offenders should be in no doubt that they face a more severe sentence for these unacceptable crimes."



    snip
     
    loong and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Its a hate crime, therefore the sentence is higher.
    But it depends on why the person was killed. If they were getting close to someone and failed to them they still had their man parts, then I can understand the rage someone might feel if they found out.
     
  3. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    Why is killing a freak any worse than killing anyone else? An innocent person is still dead. Shouldn't the punishment be the same?

    This is why I can't take you LGBT "rights" groups seriously. You make this big fuss about how "equal rights are not special rights" but then you want increased punishment when someone attacks you. How is that supposed to be equal?

    Would you give up hate crimes laws to get gay marriage legalized? Seems like a fair trade-off to me.
     
  4. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    Political correctness is so blinding that people don't even realize this is no different than 80 years ago crimes committed by black people against white having a higher penalty. "Hate crimes" is a direct affront to the foundational legal concept of EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. The hate crimes and hate speech laws in the UK and Canada, and those proposed here in the United States create a complex system by which crimes are rated by race, gender, religion, or other protected statuses; that it doesn't matter what you do, but rather WHO you do it to.

    This crap needs to be stopped before it comes to America.
     
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  5. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

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    2 genders = 2 sentences

    j/k ;)

    But seriously, this is pretty dumb.
     
  6. Speeders R Murderers

    Speeders R Murderers Banned

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    Oh sure - that justifies it.
     
  7. Speeders R Murderers

    Speeders R Murderers Banned

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    The whole civil rights thing is such a joke. Like all the affirmative action programs designed to fight racism by mandating persecution of white males.!!!

    No minority cares about equal rights. They want special treatment and hell with what's right.
     
  8. Speeders R Murderers

    Speeders R Murderers Banned

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    That's a good point. Yes it is the same thing.
     
  9. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    What kind of "normal" person murders people because they are different?
     
  10. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    What kind of normal person murders anyone? Murder itself is a hateful enough crime without adding penalty enhancements for what somebody was thinking while they were doing it.
     
  11. Awryly

    Awryly New Member Past Donor

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    There are no ends to which the justice system will not go to protect its latest group of misfits.
     
  12. NetworkCitizen

    NetworkCitizen New Member

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    And here we see where modern liberals/progressives go beyond liberty into categorization and favoritism. As a classical liberal, I scoff at the idea of a "hate" crime. Equal treatment before a court of law no matter your race or creed is as close to liberty as you can get.
     
  13. SkullKrusher

    SkullKrusher Banned

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    What if the transgender person is the transgressor? Is there a transgender rage defense?
     
  14. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Yes, it does.
    Killing someone simply because they are gay/black/Muslim whatever is a hate crime, and it is a worse crime than if you just randomly killed one of those people without caring about their personal life or religion.
     
  15. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Like if a transgender person meets a man and fails to tell that man that she is actually a he? There should be. I can understand a man losing his temper if he found that he was lied to
     
  16. SkullKrusher

    SkullKrusher Banned

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    No, I meant, if the transgender person got angry and killed a non transgender,.. I mean.. original gender... uh.. someone not exactly like a ... well, .. anyway.. Is there a "rage" defense that could be used by the TG person vs the OG person by arguing hate speech was uttered by the OG person, which provoked the TG person to violence?

    Then, since TG is such a minority, could the Insanity defence work, arguing a de facto deviancy already demonstrated by physical alteration of original gender.

    So, for someone who kills multiple times, and is charged with being a Serial Killer, it would be to their advantage to be a TG person, as they could argue more effectively that they were insane before the killing began.
     
  17. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Well-Known Member

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    No it's not about who, it's about why.

    A white person killing a black person is not necessarily a hate crime. Nor is a straight man killing a transgender person necessarily a hate crime.

    It's if they assault or kill them BECAUSE they are black, or BECAUSE they are transgender.

    It's like the difference between some crazy person going on a rampage and killing a bunch of random people for no apparent reason, and someone committing an act of terrorism.
     
  18. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Oh okay, I read your question right the first time and supplied the wrong answer! Silly me.

    To your question, I am not sure. If the person killed another just because that person thought that the transgendered person was 'weird' then I would assume that would be covered as a hate crime...
     
  19. RedParadize

    RedParadize New Member

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    Killing a someone because of its believe/religion/ethnicity/sexuality, is a hate crime, and its aggravating factor in front of the law. Keep in mid that it doesn't exclusively apply to murder. It allow judge to punish more severely in very specific case, like a neonazi assaulting a Jew just because he is one is not the same that the two same guy fighting because of a car accident.

    I am for that.
     
  20. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    Listen to the homophobes squeal.

    You get longer for killing a police officer or a firefighter. Is that OK with you? Or are all murders really the same?

    You get longer for killing a child. Is that OK with you? Or is that the same as someon getting killed in a pub fight?

    Ah..yes, you didn't really think it through now did you?

    The nature of the crime determines the sentence and as with the two crimes above, not every crime is the same.

    Can you work that one out?

    The UK more and more believe that murders of people just based on who they are: Jewish, black, gay, transgender, are especially henious crimes.

    Even more henious than other murders.

    Just like killing children or police officers are even more henious than other murders.

    Society takes a view. And is entitled to do so. Believing that killing someone just because you don't like what they are is even worse than other forms of homicide.

    Do you get it? Can you follow?

    Or are you here just to bash gays and transgender people as one of your favourite sports?
     
  21. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Why do you refer to such as person as a "freak"? (Your perspective is a literal part of the problem, IMO.)

    Yep.

    If a given society deems it necessary to apply certain solutions to change/encourage certain behaviors, then specific deterrents or incentives will be applied (as that society sees fit). For example, when policemen are killed... the penalty can be higher in certain places... than for killing a civilian. And it is a pretty sure bet, that betraying Government secrecy vs. exposing McDonald's Big Mac sauce recipe... will get you a LOT more time in jail.

    YOU don't take them seriously; that is why I view YOUR overall mindset as being a part of the PROBLEM... not something that offers viable solutions to society's ills.

    That is because "equal" is not the same as "special". Are you using ENGLISH here? (I am.)

    To correct certain problems or to deter certain behaviors... penalties are often leveled as those who pass the laws see fit. If you think that gay people have not be regularly targeted for being gay... then you aren't going to understand what you're talking about here.

    Why the STUPID question?

    Seem like you're propagating idiocy to me.
     
  22. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    Obviously. It's a shame this had to be spelled out.
     
  23. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Well-Known Member

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    There isn't a "rage" defense. There is provocation which might get murder reduced to manslaughter. There's no special defense for murder in response to hate speech though.

    Whether they're "insane" or not is a matter for the psychologists.

    Serial killers are generally gonna be a bit screwed up in the head I would've thought.
     
  24. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    I know... some American's PLAY IGNORANT to try and sneak their poor logic into a discussion.
     
  25. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    What do you Leftists not understand about "equal protection under the law"? Why should some groups have a higher protection than others? When you increase the deterence for killing some groups of people but not for others, that is unequal protection. And no, I'm not deliberately ignoring the distinction you're trying to draw, but if a white man kills a black man, he would be, under hate crimes statutes, be automatically suspected of a hate crime while the same wouldn't apply in reverse. All this is, is introducing the element of political correctness into our justice system which is a step backward to the days of Jim Crow and the terror of the KKK. We fought a steeped battle to rid our court systems of such a bias and it's you on the Left who want to resurrect its wretched corpse.
     

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