Ukraine enters uncharted waters after comedian wins presidency

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by Pollycy, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Many Russians themselves grudgingly admitted that it’s true.
    You are pretty much the only one denying it’s true.
    Even Girkin, the architect of Ukrainian war.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
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  2. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You realize that Moscow is the most protected city in the world?
     
  3. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The architect of the Ukrainian war was the neocon Nuland and the coup that disenfranchised most of the Ukrainians in favor of some Nazis and mafia families. The hero Igor Girkin, otherwise known as Strelkov, helped to organize the Ukrainian people in their fight for freedom.

    Had Vladimir Putin not stopped the Great Strelkov in his advance towards Kiev, Ukraine would have been free today, except for Galatia. They would be where they belong, under Poland.

    Putin decided now to fast forward Russian passports to anyone in Ukraine who wants one. Well it's about time. This means that that they will now be under Russian protection. This fits in perfectly with Russia's new policy of intervening in nations for humanitarian purposes.

    [​IMG]

    Strelkov tried to save Slaviansk, but needed arms and Russia refused since it didn't want to intervene in Ukraine. This forced Strelkov to exit the city and leave it to its fate. Later on he obtained all the arms he needed with the surrender of one of the Ukrainian armies, but it was too late to save Slaviansk.


    Kolomoisky wanted to frack in Slaviansk and the people wouldn't allow it, so he bombed the city with white phosphorous. There is an arrest warrant out for him by Putin because of it. Kolomoisky is also the backer of the new president of Ukraine, so let's see what happens. Giving Russian citizenship to Ukrainians might be the first step towards its eventual break up.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
  4. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Yes so protected.....it's pretty much blind to an attack from any of our boomer subs from the Mediterranean , Baltic, Barents, .....those 12 mln inhabitants will be extra crispy in 10 mins flying time.
     
  5. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Where's those videos Jenny?
     
  6. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    No different than the infamous German assault rifle STG44, that was on a statue in Moscow last summer sometime.....the AK47 a carbon copy of it.LOL.
     
  7. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    I would recommend you to stick to the facts and throw the propaganda fairy tales from both sides in the bin!

    In 2011, Putin had clearly warned the West what would happen if something like the Maidan happened and we in the West behave as stupidly as we behaved!
    Only then did Putin laugh in the West ... but those who laughed at that time may hopefully choke on laughter today!
    The majority of Donbass and Crimea are inhabited by Russians, which is due to centuries of realities in Tsarist Russia and then to realities in the USSR. Sevastopol is as important a naval base to Russia as San Diego is to the US Navy ... and since NATO is terribly hostile to Russia since Bush Jr., the Russians are sure to let NATO units fall by the side of Sevastopol!

    If Mexico wanted to form an alliance with Russia and offered to use one of the ports as a base for Russia, then you can count the very short countdown until US Marines and other parts of the US Army tell the Mexicans that this is a stupid idea!
    If Biden gets dangerously high blood pressure because of around 100 Russian soldiers in Venezuela ... then you can imagine the corresponding reaction as described above!

    But why does not Russia have the same rights that the US claims for itself? Because it is Russia? Lol ... the times are over, but in Washington and other Western capitals they have not got it!
     
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  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    America choose a reality tv star... so hope it turns out better for them
     
  9. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I’m not going to regurgitate the same points to you as we have discussed this on numerous occasions and you are aware of my opinion on Russia-Ukraine relationship.
    Russia likes to follow the rule of the strong - might make it right, but with only 2% of the worlds GDP and heavy reliance by the Russian government on state propaganda, sooner or later Russians will have another weak president who will do another “glasnost” and weaken the propaganda. At that point common Russians will realize that they are the cause of their own problem which will ultimately result in further disintegration of Russia into smaller states.
    Russia cannot hold itself together without a very strong leader. It’s evidenced by history and common sense. Russia’s collapse is not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when.
     
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  10. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Russia isn't important enough to qualify as a pole in the multi-polar world. USA? Of course. China? Definitely. EU? Yes, if it hangs together. India? Soon. Russia? It's size and mineral wealth put it in the game, but their population, economy, and political clout bring it up short.
     
  11. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    And what is the difference between the behavior of the US and that of Russia in the world?
    Sorry ... you may criticize the Russian position and the annexation of the Crimea, but then you should also as a criticizing person, have a white jacket and do not yourself comparable in the world!
    The fact is that the US and others in the "West" have been constantly provoking the Russians for some 20 years. Take this anti-missile shield in Poland and Romania ... why was it stationed there under Bush Jr.?
    Officially, and according to Bush, because of the evil Iranian and North Korean missiles that threaten Europe ... just ... at the time, they both did not have missiles with such a range!
    That leaves only Russia ... but why? There were no middle-distance missiles at the time and in itself Russia threatened nobody ... neither Ukraine, nor the Baltic states. Only in Georgia there was a conflict, but where Russia acted in full agreement with the US and nothing to complain about by Washington.

    So ... please explain to me with reasonable reasons why the US has stationed this missile defense system!
     
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  12. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Those whose understanding of "Russia" is based only on 'common knowledge' and what amounts to 'folklore' may find it helpful to review what the CIA provides to the public in a wonderful compendium of articles called, "The World Factbook".

    Here is the specific link in it for the Russian Federation: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rs.html

    Off-topic observation: throughout history, several very powerful countries underestimated Russia terribly -- among them The First French Empire, and, more recently, The German Third Reich.
     
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  13. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Midget? No. One of the poles in a multi-polar world? No.
     
  14. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Defending against their aggression is "constantly provoking" them? You figure the East Europeans who joined the EU and NATO are the "bad guys?"
     
  15. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Kleptonomics?
     
  16. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Who provoked Russia? Expansion of NATO is voluntary - no one forced Poland and other eastern countries to join and we are out of the old “spheres of influence” politics that limited other nations sovereignty.
    If Russians had something against those missiles in Europe they could have fielded their own in Kaliningrad.

    Russia didn’t threaten anyone? Are you living under a rock? Why do you think Poland and Baltic states flocked to NATO at the first chance they got?
     
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  17. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    What does the CIA Factbook have to do with my assessment?
    Okay.
    Taking over a large country is difficult. Ask Japan about China.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  18. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Projection my dear boy, projection. They fear that Russia wants to do to them, what they want to do to Russia - otherwise why would they think that Russia wants to expand into nations that are totally useless to them? For what? For their lands, for their oil, for their gas, for their diamonds, for their coal, for their gold, for their timber and I could go on and on..

    Then again, Poland might have dreams of rebuilding its former empire and is stupid enough to think they can do it with America's help? Fools, that's what they are. When they turn into dust they can thank 'America'.
     
  19. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    You can join the ranks of self-glorifying experts who like to disparage Putin because it's fun and easy. But, while you're doing that, reflect on the fact that when you compare Russia's GDP versus national debt with that of the United States, it makes us look like a bunch of halfwitted, gullible morons, led around with a ring in the end of our nose by a central bank -- the "Fed".

    Yeah, Pootsky does have a Ph.D in Economics, among other degrees. You can like that, dislike that, or whatever, and make fun of it if that amuses you. But, respect an opponent's accomplishments and capabilities, or you will never be able to deal with him intelligently....

    Taken even a passing look at what kind of international economic deals this guy has been able to put together in the past five years? No? Well, then just keep on laughing and feeling smug in your 'knowledge'....
     
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  20. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Question: Why is Biden so upset about 100 Russian soldiers in Venezuela? Why was the US so angry about Russian engegement in Syria? Why was Kennedy so pissed off about the Russian missiles in Cuba and that there ware Russsians at all placed? Why was Reagan pissed off about Nicaragua and the Sandinista government to support right wing terrorists called "Contras" against them?
    All independent countries who are free to do what they want and with whom they make an aliance and friendship ... and so no matter for the USA!

    It is not really about the NATO expansion in the East ... even this is also an impudence and breaking worth of the USA ... but it is the ignorance of Russian interests and their close sphere of interest.
    Starting with Georgia which depress a minority which is Pro Russian and wants to have no independence, but an autonomy within Georgia, but where Tiblise denies to give them and Georgia is backed by the US ... as are the minorites by Russia. And all onto the direct border to Russia!

    Ukraine I explained in meantime a thousand times and I won't repeat myself again and again...
    .
    Then we have this Anti Missile defence in Poland and Romania, where once was the lie told by the US that it is to defend Europe against these evil Iranian and North Korean missiles ... even both had at this time no missiles with such a range. Everyone knew and know that it is against Russia, but why? There was no Russian action and any sort of "new weapon" at this time which justifies this placement!
    So we have a pure American provocation what is left only here!
    And then comes also American impudence, because after this Anti Missile Shield, Russia developed this new Missile system which is accused to break the INF contract. Whether this missile really does or not is heavy disputed, fact is that the missile was an answer of an American step ... not reversed as the US claims again and again!

    And you mention Kaliningrad ... there we have the next impudence of the USA, NATO and here also Poland and the Baltics in special! They have fielded systems to Kalinimngrad AFTER the US implemented the Anti Missile Systems and what was the reaction then? An outcry of indignation and a **** storm against Russia because they did! Sorry ... this is hypocritical behavior, because again it was only a reaction of Russia to an action of the US before that!
     
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  21. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    In poarts, Yes ... I do! And note, my wife is Polish and I have good and wide family connections to Poland. This does not hinder me to tell the truth of facts!

    Look on my post above to another one and explain me why the US placed the Anti Missile Systems in Poland and Romania. Name me the verfieed and justified reasons for this and what bad issue Russia has done at this time to reason it!
     
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  22. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Even a 'non-classified', cursory examination of what Russians have well-entrenched and thoroughly developed in their Kaliningrad Oblast tells us why the U. S. wanted to put missiles in Poland and elsewhere in Eastern Europe. I make no judgments about whether doing so is 'wrong' or 'right'... merely that when one calculates 'flight-times' of ballistic missiles from Kaliningrad to Warsaw, Berlin, Brussels, London, etc., it becomes clear that the only 'deterrent' the "West" has is "mutual-assured destruction" -- much as it has been for over sixty years....

    Conversely, nobody but hysterical, Russia-hating morons worry anymore about "Eastern-bloc countries" sending tanks and infantry down the Fulda Gap and proceeding directly to the Rhine River in no more than a few days. But the question we must (MUST) ask ourselves is, "Could Putin do this...?" With NATO looking more and more like an ill-equiped Boy Scout troop every day it is a question that must be asked.

    Example: today, even the once-dependable German Bundeswehr is a JOKE that is becoming more and more pathetic all the time.... Google "Bundeswehr falling apart" and read for yourself.... And the rest of NATO...? :roflol:

    [​IMG]. "I've always wanted to see the Black Forest."
     
  23. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    Mandelus....aren't we (you) being a little ironic? You, a German, are complaining about U.S. aggression.....the only reason the U.S. has a large military footprint in Europe is because of Germany in the first place. The Nazis should have stayed within their borders and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Those pesky aggressive Russians:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  24. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Mate,

    the whole thing is basically a matter of action and reaction ... so who started and who just reacted!

    With the Missile Defense System, the answer is unequivocal and irrefutable proof that it was a US provocation. It was installed under Bush Jr. with a lie, with full ignoring of the Russian objections ... at the time was also in Kaliningrad nothing new, which has been there since the end of the Cold War and a justification (demonstrable!) And the controversial Russian missile from the INF contract dispute was not even existing at this time!

    As for the "Bundeswehr", means the German armed forces, my personal list of criticisms of someone who served there for 6 years and was involved in various conflicts in war effort ... is very long!
    Only what you mean here is outdated and no longer really the case. Examples:
    a)
    For example, the Typhoon fighter had massive problems with spare parts supply ... not because of the money, but because certain "high brass" in the Luftwaffe have less brain mass than a piece of bread! Largely solved meanwhile.
    b)
    The problem with the rifle G-36 was already known in my time, when we had not known the G-3, and even me personally, who was involved in pilot shooting at that time. Very clear statement from us participants: If the weapon in a prolonged firefight with a lot of lost ammunition begins to get hot, then the accuracy decreases unabashedly. Result: We were ignored and our report disappeared somewhere in a black hole ... and suddenly the problem is the excitement. Solution ... well ... one thinks about an improvement and about the purchase of the AR-15, which is also produced by the same manufacturer - Heckler & Koch.
    c)
    Or currently ... where I am damn annoyed ... our old sail training ship of the Navy - Gorch Fock - went to the yard for an overhaul and repair ... Cost approach: 9.6 million euros. Meanwhile, the ship has been docked for years and the cost is now 130 million euros ... for the money you can build 3 new sailing school ships!

    The main problem in the Bundeswehr is not lack of money, but incoherence in the administration and many "high brass" decision makers, waste of tax money and inability to do the right things for the benefit of the soldiers!

    On the other side, a lot of bullcrap has been and still is being said about Bundeswehr. Old example when I was in the 90's soldier:
    Someone from Ex DDR Army told me that the German Leopard 2 tank (at this time the A4 version ... in meantime the complete different A7 version in use) would not stand a chance against the Russian T-72 tank if it had become to war.
    Very interesting statement ... because the American M1A1 (as the M1A2 actually) uses the same Leopard German 120mm cannon, with the same Leopard targeting device and the same ammo as the Leopard ... and the M1A1 recently did something to the T-72 in Iraq in 1991? All facts, but of course I was told I'm lying!
    These bullcrap stories and assertions about the Bundeswehr, their soldiers, their equipment and generally there are always and now I yawn about the bullshit only bored.
    By the way, the Typhoon is currently told to have no chance against the Russians S-400 Anti air missile. Of course ... yawn! ;-)
     
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  25. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    The truly ironic thing is that if Hitler had done two things, he'd have won the war rather easily:

    1. Honor the "Treaty of Non-aggression between Germany and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics", which was signed in August 1939. No war with the Soviet Union meant certain German victory everywhere else.

    2. Completely annihilate the British Expeditionary Force (and what remained of the French army) at Dunkirk instead of ALLOWING them to be evacuated back to England. German field commanders were astonished and dismayed that they were ORDERED to hold back....

    Now, wouldn't it be even more ironic if in the years ahead, a new, cordial 'relationship' develops between the EU (lead, of course, by Germany) and the Russian Federation? The Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline marks a significant new area of cooperation and mutual benefit for both Germany (specifically) and the Russian Federation. And, Russia's increasingly-close ally, China, is making very significant penetrations into Western Europe with its Belt-and-Road initiative (as well as throughout the Middle East and Africa).

    Meanwhile what does the U. S. do? Saddle the Germans with a U. S. Ambassador that they have come to openly hate and despise! Richard Grenell has worked tirelessly to make a complete SHAMBLES of U. S. - German relations, and that comes at a very bad time indeed! So, we're losing our 'grip' on Germany (THE decision-maker of the entire EU), and Russia is getting cozier and friendlier with Germany all the time.... :couple_inlove:

    [​IMG]. "We could make it work for both of us next time!"
     
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