UN, singles out Israel as world’s only violator of women’s rights

Look, I wouldn't worry about the Jews, they are incompetent.
They have been trying to drive out the Palestinians for 70 years
but there are more Palestinians than ever now. Indeed, many of
them live in Israel itself, and love it.
The Jews hold a strong connection to their former temple in
Jerusalem but they can't even worship there because the Muslims
don't like it. Happens nowhere else in the world.
Hamas fired 600 rockets at Israel a few weeks ago. And the Jews
couldn't stop it. Happens nowhere else.
So yeah, every nation has either driven out their Jewish minorities
or we see a rising tide of antisemitism - Jews can't stop it. Israel
is their last bastion. Soon the Arabs will slit their throats and we
won't hear about Jews again.

 

Of course the hard right loves Nazi's and Fascists ... See - I can make idiotic statements with no support as well.

What does this have to do with Chomsky not being wrong about everything ?

 

This was what you said.
"You are not correct - he was not aware of the atrocities that actually happened at the time he was writing - I looked it up. You mischaracterized what he said". And I responded, correctly, that, :So he held opinions which were unsupported by facts. Truly an inspiration to every Leftist". And you proved my point.

I didn't just point out 'incorrect', I pointed out his crazy support for left wing mass murderers. Yes, we are not always correct but even on my worst day I'd never support Mao, Pol Pot or Kim in North Korea.

 

The Jews can turn the entire mid-east into a glass parking lot.
They are not incompetent, they are being nice.

If I was in charge I would have leveled the west bank long ago.

 

You have not proven anything .. I asked to for for an example from your link and you have yet to come up with one.

 

never said that, why do you think leaving the UN things would suddenly be all roses around the planet and we would all be singing kumbaya

 

Palestinians claim having 'right of return' would not endanger Israeli security.
I say make a deal - give them 'right of return' and all that, but if they endanger
the Jews again then all bets are off and the Arabs are driven out of Gaza and
the West Bank forever.

 

I sent you a link which quoted Chomsky. What more do you need???

 

[/QUOTE]
Trump doesn't follow our own rules, Trump is a fluke

 

Yet more idiotic nonsense from the UN condemning Israel for their supposed oppression of women in the territories.

Well I suppose they have a point, oppressing palestinian women should be the sole prerogative of the Palestinian government and culture so screw them jews taking away yet more rights of the poor Palestinians.

What bald faced self righteous hypocrisy.

 

Source for the quote?

The term "Palestinians" doesn't appear in the resolution at all.

Anti-Zionists never notice that West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza, had been acquired by Jordan and Egypt in war. The preamble to Resolution 242 might as well apply to their illegal acquisition of these territories. Oddly enough, there wasn't an international uproar when that happened, with the UN buzzing, humming, and bending under the weight of righteous indignation. Interesting.

Preambles to resolutions are not legally binding, by the way. Neither are most UNSC resolutions, but 242 was accepted by Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and very reluctantly by the PLO in the late 80s. It's the legal basis for every peace negotiation ever since.

The resolution doesn't ask Israel to withdraw from all the territories. It also stresses that countries have the right to live in peace in secure borders. The Soviet proposal, which included asking Israel to withdraw to pre-1967 lines, was rejected.

Resolution 242 is one of the most misunderstood, used and abused resolutions in the history of the UN. It's misinterpreted to mean that the occupation (a term disputed by Israel) is illegal, when in fact the non-binding preamble refers to "acquisition", which is a different sauce for a different gander.

UK, whose draft for the resolution was adopted by the Security Council, is not called the Perfidious Albion just for fun - and I say this with mixed feelings. While they are the main reason the territories were conquered by Jordan and Egypt in the first place, they were very careful in their wording of the resolution to leave Israel enough room for legally holding some of the territories.

Sources for the quotes?

You forgot to mention hostile actions by Syria and Jordan during the same period, making it look like Israel was the only active actor on the regional scene. Are Arabs really just puppets on strings?

Israel kicked out UN from the Sinai? How, exactly?

Hindsight is a wonderful, wonderful thing. It allows enemies to claim misconduct on the part of Israel, as if all our policy makers are witches and wizards well trained as seers, crystal ball experts, prophets, and time travelers.

Pfftt.

 

The blockade was established by the Quartet after Hamas coup in Gaza. Today it's enforced by Israel and Egypt. Yes, it's an act of war.

Unproven premises and loaded language aside, the answer to your question is quite simple. Knowledge of recent history is required.

Hamas is an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, an organization whose stated goal is the establishment of a world wide Islamic Caliphate. Islamist organizations are usually also Islamic charities. The popularity of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, for instance, leading to their victory in post Egyptian spring elections, was due not only to their image as enemies of the hated Mubarak regime, but also in good part to their charitable activities, like free healthcare for the poor. Hamas also did charity work.

Following Oslo accords, Gaza became part of the PA in 1994, being ruled by Fatah led by Arafat. During the second Intifada in 2000-2001, Hamas initiated the rocket attacks that continue to this day. The dismantling of all Israeli settlements in Gaza in 2005 was seen by Gazans as a victory of Hamas strategy.

Charity work and the aura of a successful anti-Zionist movement are the reasons Hamas won elections in Gaza. However, Fatah was still leading the PA, Hamas being only a coalition partner. The rest - the bloody coup that brought Hamas to absolute power in Gaza and led to the complete political separation between PA and Gaza - is well known. It was this coup that angered the international community and elicited the blockade.

Your insinuations about the dire conditions in Gaza prior to Hamas takeover (it was not elected to rule the PA, or Gaza, but to be a coalition partner) are misdirected. At the time, Gaza had been ruled by Fatah for 12 years, from 1994 to 2006, and by a coalition of Fatah and Hamas in 2006-2007 prior to the coup. If conditions in Gaza were dire then, it was due to their own leaders.

 

I did, but I still saw no mention of "world's only violator of women’s rights."

 

Sounds like you read the Chomskybot apologia rather than going through all the stuff he wrote. Believe what you want. Not my problem.

That isn't what I'm trying to claim, but I really can't be bothered explaining it to you slowly.

I have had 'leftist political leanings' for over 3 decades - since before I was old enough to vote. I still do. I have a bunch of Chomsky books on my shelf & I've seen him talk several times. I used to be a big fan. Then I woke up to how profoundly dishonest & morally bankrupt he is. I assume everything he says is questionable until proved otherwise.

As even the briefest dip into this forum will tell you, profound dishonesty & moral bankruptcy are the bedrock of right wing politics. I don't have any interest in watching left wing politics end up the same way.

 

I never said that. The world around us wouldnt ch age and the US could save a few billion dollars a year though. On top of the cash savings, the US wouldnt be stuck playing world police.

 

I know you didn't, I was just returning the favor....

 

You sent a link with numerous quotes from Chomsky - most of which did not address the subject matter - never mind support your claim.

I have no idea which quote in the link you are referring to.

 

I also have read a few of his books - "Manufacturing Consent" and "Necessary Illusions" These are very good books which describe the mechanisms at work within the mass media and so on. This doesn't mean that I agree with his political leanings. I have little use for Marxism in general but, this does not mean that Marx did not make any good points.

Facts are facts and opinion is opinion - and the two - while connected - are not the same.

When you come on a debate site and make naked claims akin to - "it came from Chomsky so it must be wrong" - you should expect to be called out - and rightly so - on ad hom fallacy. This is attacking the messenger rather than the message.

 

Tell you what. You took the time to post these claims so I will take the time to follow up in good faith. I"m busy so it will probably take a day to re-research the '67 war, it's origins and aftermath.

In fairness, I think it worthwhile to have a discussion about this.

The quotes are public record taken from the source and easily researchable.

It was the Egyptians who kicked UN out of Sinai - I was adding that for a little balance on the escalation on both sides.

 

Jews are humane. Muslims, um not so much. The only reason the muslims living in Palestine still exist is because Israel is humane. If the roles were reversed, Israel would have been obliterated long ago.

 

The roles were reversed before the creation of the state of Israel.

Jews lived mostly peaceful prosperous lives in Palestine while they were being brutally oppressed and persecuted throughout most of Europe.

Then the Zionist movement began gaining influence in the British aristocracy........

 

Are you claiming they re-wrote the Qur'an, I doubt it.
Non-muslims living on Muslim land were Dhiminies.
Been that way for 1400 years, and did not change for you to write a comment.

 

Your sputtering hatered of Islam has nothing to do with my comment - which is absolutely true.

Islam was actually very tolerant of other faiths as long as you did not cause a bunch of trouble for the rulers.

This was true both in the dark ages of Europe when the Islamic world helped keep classical knowledge alive and in Palestine before Balfour.

I'm not interested in discussing your virulent hatred of the Koran though it is your thread and you are welcome to try and spread it around the forum if that is your mission and how you want to spend your time.

 

Islam was never tolerant of other faiths, where did you ever get that idea.
The orders are written in the Qur'an and sunnah, in many places.
Pickthall:
And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.

And the only time I am aware of where Islam kept knowledge is when they were siding with the Jews in Spain, against the christians.
This was the only period in Islamic history where they actually gained knowledge.
However most was not used because it was against the Qur'an.

why do you just make this stuff up.
Or read from something, someone else made up.

 

C'mon. I could pull quotes out of any of the three major religious texts out of context to make them seem barbaric or fanatically violent. Dhiminies actually means "protected people" or people of the book. I was mostly referring to the age of the caliphates after the 7th century when many Jews escaped persecution in Europe in Muslim lands. Many Jews came in waves to what would eventually be the Ottoman Empire escaping oppression to become successful merchants and business people even being involved as intermediaries in relations between Islamic countries.

Islamic scholars did keep mathematics and science from classical Greece and Rome alive while Europeans were burning witches at the stake and impaling people on red hot pikes. There is no denying this except in people who do not understand history and have an agenda to spread hatred towards a single religion. Our number system is Arabic in origin.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...2/muslim-medicine-scientific-discovery-islam/

You are probably not aware of Islamic history because you only read material that conforms to your conformation bias. This is the same thing you do when you pull quotations out of the Koran that appear to conform and support your narrative that all Islam is raving, violent Jihadism. What you are presenting is not scholarship or study of the Koran. It is an attempt to condemn an entire religion by it's most extreme elements - often elements such as the Muhajideen or Wahhabi that we and our allies have used as weapons in order to secure resources and wealth in Arab lands over the years.

I don't make things up. I study history. Why have you made it your mission in life to spread fear and hatred?

I think I am wasting my time indulging hatred but here is some footnoted reading material you could peruse to broaden your mind if you so choose.

Spreading fear and hate only reinforces fear and hate.