Undercover Epicenter Nurse

He owns a for-profit hospital (only ~15% are for-profit), is working COVID cases himself and signing death certificates, and he's found a way to funnel all such funds directly to himself instead of, at best, it getting divided among all investors through dividends? Yeah, sorry, but I call bull ****. No, you know no such person.

 

Yes he and other doctors built and own the hospital. He has enough clout in management to override hospital policy on nursing staff, surgery room protocols, and outside orthopedic surgeon’s protocols in that room. I know because I saw it all happen. If he was inclined to monkey with billing he would have the ability.

Now I know him well enough to know he wouldn’t do such a thing. I lived with him for two years and he got me through calculus and I helped him a bit with biology. But assuming no doctor can profit from C19 based on your reasoning of separation between doctor and hospital is a big assumption not based on reality.

 

He'd have to actually "monkey" with the death certificates. If you actually have evidence he is doing so, you need to turn him in. Of course, you have no such thing.

 

Per the Cares Act, the only time in which the Covid-19 code makes a difference is when the patient is a Medicare patient. In this case, they will be also be coded for the conditions which Covid-19 gave rise to (e.g. pneumonia, sepsis, ARDS) and for which they were treated, and the hospital will receive the usual lump sum payment for those codes, plus 20%. That's it. There are no other add-ons.

Sorry, but you can't re-invent an actual statute.

 

I think America has a completely broken healthcare system

And I think you didn’t do us the courtesy of linking to any of your claims

 

Can you read? I just said he would do no such thing. I’m pointing out your errors in assuming doctors and hospitals can’t collude. When a doctor runs the hospital it would be very easy.

Why are you convinced everyone dies? Discharge papers exist as well.

 

Only ~15% of hospitals are for-profit. For the ones who aren't for-profit, no individual doctor is going to get to pocket any of that money. In for-profits, any excess funds will either end up being reinvested in the company, so potentially increasing stock price by a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a cent, or will be distributed through dividends . . . divided by stock owners in proportion to their stock share. Any individual doctor would be lucky to get a crisp $50 bill out of it..

So, let's recap: IF you are a doctor working these cases and IF you are a working for a for-profit hospital (again ~15%) and IF you are a significant shareholder in said hospital then MAYBE you can get a couple of bucks out of this.

Would you like me to repeat how lame of an excuse that is?

 

Rare Beyond for a metro hospital to be owned by a doctor I would think

 

Percentage of hospitals that are or aren’t for profit is really irrelevant. But you are incorrect there as well. As of 2020, 21% are for profit. In some states 40-50% of hospitals are for profit. But as I said, that’s irrelevant.

Apparently you don’t understand business well, as a doctor in a not for profit hospital certainly has incentive to make that hospital money. Nonprofit hospitals are hurting badly from this pandemic. Many were barely hanging on before the pandemic. Doctors depend on their hospitals for their salary my friend. A bankrupt hospital means no job, no money unless you move or find another gig. This is a much bigger factor than the $50 you refer to.

So in reality, both for profit and non profit hospitals/doctors have incentive to game the system. Your views are myopic.

Are all doctors and hospitals crooks? Nope. Is there opportunity and incentive to game this? Yep.

 

It's very much relevant. For reasons provided.

[qupte]But you are incorrect there as well. As of 2020, 21% are for profit. In some states 40-50% of hospitals are for profit. But as I said, that’s irrelevant.[/quote]Ah, guess it has grown by a couple of points.

I'm in my last year of my MBA.

They have no financial incentive to fake COVID cases, despite your continued attempts to daydream reasons why.

Doctors have no direct financial incentive. No one is getting rich off of this.

Oh, I'm sure that three or four doctors will do so. And they all deserve condemnation. It's still a piss-poor excuse to downplay the virus.

 

I’m not sure what your definition of metro is. I am no expert on ownership of hospitals. Best I can tell there are between 250-300 physician owned hospitals in the US. The ACA put more severe restrictions on formation of them. The guy I’m referencing here has been trying to expand into another town/market and is having trouble getting authorization to do so. We wouldn’t want more competition or consumer choice now, would we?

 

I’ve not downplayed the virus. I’ve not said anyone is getting rich. I’m simply pointing out your errors that continue to multiply and now morph into strawmen.

I’ve provided the incentives and the rational behind them. If you can’t see them I’m concerned you may be enrolled in something like Trump University. May want to check into that.

 

No, I just understand individual financial incentives and why it is silly for people to claim that these are somehow swaying our COVID numbers.

 

I didn't suggest that the individual doctors were getting money. I said they claimed they were being pressured to use covid as cause of death. Presumably by hospital personnel. You seem to be awfully touchy about this. Relax, no one said all this must be true, just wanted to see how others feel about it. Except for the exec. order by Cuomo; according to google, that part is true.

I suppose we all like to read/watch things that confirm beliefs we already have. I have always thought the corona panic was overblown, so I was probably more keen to believe at least some of this.

The author does seem to have somewhat of a "hero" complex, in which she wants to be the immortalized one who solves this for everyone.

 

There is no evidence that such "pressure" is happening. And excess death counts show that we aren't over counting COVID deaths. Yes, this kind of misinformation upsets me. I have family with lives on the line and they are risking their lives to serve people who got themselves into trouble by listening to this kind of information.

 

It applies to medicare patients and the uninsured with COVID that get covered through the CARES Act at the same enhanced rate of medicare patients.

 

Clearly you do not understand. Because when evidence of such incentives are presented you can’t address them in any way but appeal to the stone and appeal to authority fallacies.

 

Yes, I know. I was rebutting the specific notion that there are all sorts of "add-on" payments, tripling up of usual rates, etc. That is, much higher payments for a Covid patient compared to a non-Covid patient receiving the same treatment.

 

The monetary incentive for coding "Covid related" is already documented.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ore-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

 

Yeah no one would fudge the numbers where more money is involved.

It's ridiculous to even suggest that.

 

Finished this book and I do believe this nurse's story. I could find very few people on line who even refute it. Mostly, medical people seem to be mad that she "didn't follow proper channels" or she's an "anti-vaxxer," which seems irrelevant, or she was just sneaky (perhaps true, but doesn't make what she's saying lies). It seems that many nurses tried to complain about the conditions and negligence at that particular hospital and others using proper channels, but were rebuked. The gentleman in the above video did have some e-mails from staff at this hospital trying to debunk what she is telling, but what I don't find is any family members of the patients defending them. So, anyone interested can read the book or listen to the stuff she recorded and make up your own mind.

 

Tweet it out on Twitter.

If they censor it, you know it's true.

 

I suspect you're right on that detail, but the Big Picture is much more complex than that, I'm sure.

 

No need to suspect - you can read it in the Act. Reading the Cares Act will also let you know how your "Big Picture" - which you do feel sure about - actually stacks up to reality.

 

The most interesting part of the CARES Act is that it began life under a different name, fully one year before "the crisis" was declared.

That little factoid strongly supports that this event was planned well in advance. Is it possible that those in government and congress are devious enough to do something like that?