Universal Salvation, is everybody eventually led back to heaven/paradise/love?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by DennisTate, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    If I am wrong and there is a continuation for us after death, it will be a state beyond remembering and forgetting. There will be no experiencing or knowing. There will only be Being. It will be a return to what was prior to birth.
     
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My belief is that we are both reincarnated......
    as well as resurrected......
    so in paradise / heaven you can meet Miss Anne Frank if you wish......
    but here on this earth you can meet Ms. Barbro Karlen.... who I believe is her reincarnation......
     
  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tecoyah's mom went through a transformation after her brush with death.


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-early-as-2016.397835/page-10#post-1067414414


    I believe that the being of light of NDE fame who reviews lives with people is
    none other than Messiah Yeshua - Jesus keeping his promise to, in the future, speak
    plainly of the Father.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unless.... there was some sort of off the scale important series of lessons being learned in this
    lifetime as a human.... in which case total forgetfulness of this life would
    cause us to lose those lessons.....
    wouldn't it?
     
  5. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you think there is more than One consciousness. Even the experience that you are, is not your true nature. What changes is not real; what is real does not change.
     
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  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But I do believe each new identity that we assume.... can become permanent... immortal........
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I disagree..........
    but guilt, shame....... and regret..... can grow and grow and grow over time......
     
  8. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Universal Salvation, is everybody eventually led back to heaven/paradise/love?


    We do not come from Heaven. We come from the love making between a man and woman..

    John 1:12-13


    "[But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name]: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

    So basically we are born of blood, of the will of the flesh and of the will of man. Of course it takes a woman also....
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The genetics in our physical body yes.......
    but how is it that some four year old's can be musical prodigy's?

    Dr. Ian Stevenson was fascinated by the possible implications of some children who could remember a past life so he traveled extensively to research about 3000 such cases.

    https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/research/ian-stevenson.html

    Dr. Ian Stevenson's Reincarnation Research

    ...
    A part of us seems to plan out some of the major aspects of the role that we are to play out in life.... but our freedom to make widely different choices that alter the future is very real......

    https://www.near-death.com/science/research/pre-existence.html

    Pre-Existence and the Near-Death Experience
     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow.... this is scary.... Bob Jones was shown 98 percent of people are lost... and only two percent are saved.........
    That is after the thirty nine minute mark in this video.....

    Matthew 22:14

    For many are called, but few are chosen."

    Matthew 7:13

    Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

    Although I am convinced of eventual universal salvation.......
    it is a serious problem to turn other things into our gods.......
    and not search for G-d........
    with our free time......



     
  11. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    I love religious theology lets see this god gives humans no real evidence of its existance and then punishes us for not believing in him. What a depraved and sick being if true.

    Fortunately its not there is no god proven so come unto my Dark Lord Magog of Morskar the future ruler of this world and living god who with enough worship will ascend him to full deity hood - worship him! :worship::worship::worship::worship:
     
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  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good satire.....
    well written......
    but the thought has crossed my mind that perhaps.....
    the book The Time Machine by H. G. Wells may have had more to it than we might at first imagine..........

    AboveAlpha's ideas on Multiverse Theory.....
    seem to me to fit with non-linear time.....
    and for all I know.....
    there could have been a time line in which in the future.....
    the descendants of the people who took the mark of the beast could have became like the human cattle......
    who the cannibalistic Morlocks preyed on........
    and the Morlocks could have been the descendants of the elite.... who went down into
    massive underground bunkers...........
    that they had prepared for the coming time of relative disaster??????

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...cal-implications-of-multiverse-theory.424926/

    The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?
     
  13. Channe

    Channe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I could see this as being more justified than someone spending eternity in hell simply for not being a Christian. The Christian doctrine of Jesus or hell forever is not moral.

    Jesus: Knock knock
    Me: Who's there ?
    Jesus: It's me Jesus, let me in !
    Me: Why ?
    Jesus: So I can save you.
    Me: Save me from what ?
    Jesus: From what I'll do to you if you don't let me in.
     
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  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The problem is......
    Messiah Yeshua - Jesus cannot take people into heaven.....
    who are full of pride......
    if He did... .heaven would not be heaven for very long.......

    The Outer Darkness of Heaven though.... as shown to Pastor Rick Joyner in a visionary dream of heaven given to him in 1995..... sure fits with the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory..........

    In my opinion.....
    His Holiness Pope Francis would do well to get in contact with Pastor Rick Joyner and begin face to face discussions with him........
    You will want to scroll about half way down this page to begin.....

    http://64.71.77.248/fq-protestant/tfq-en.html

    The Truth of Grace
     
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I just came across an exceptionally impressive writing from the 18th century..........
    back in those days you could get into a lot of trouble if you had a near death experience and
    taught eventual universal salvation.........
    but that is obviousl what he wrote:


    https://www.near-death.com/religion...ury-nde-the-case-of-george-de-benneville.html
    ...................

    ...............
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Howard Storm Ph. D" "It's way more complex than either the universalists or the fundamentalists think..... I think they have tried to make it so simple..... that's all they can handle but it's way more complicated than that."

    Spoken at 1:11:40 or so in this exceptional audio interview......


     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  17. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    remember, near death is not the same as real death. Near death, you come back and continue to live until the real death. After the real death, the Last Day. All shall be 'judged' and 'receive' their reward. Reward is usually a gift, not a punishment. All shall receive their reward for the good deeds they did... not, All shall receive their punishment for the ill deeds they did....

    Christ Jesus already offered Himself for the forgiveness of The World, then, now and the future. But all those days and months and often times lives wasted not attaining to reward(s) but to emptiness is a waste.

    So if a person 'dies' the real death and wakes to receive their 'reward', but their life was full of ill deeds, what reward might they receive for all of Eternity? Because they will receive reward rather than punishment. But with what reward shall they live, at least the beginning part of Eternity, with?

    It's kind of like 'investing' for your 401k.

    The rewards are towards 'deeds', not thoughts. I can have very ill hearted thoughts but those are not 'deeds' or 'acts'. I will not be rewarded for ill thoughts just as I will not be rewarded for good thoughts.

    And don't forget to instruct your children in these ways too. :)

    And hopefully they can instruct their children and their children their children, all the way until the Last Day..

    Life on Earth today is at around 7.6 billion. 82 years from now, most of us will have passed. Life then is expected to be at 11.3 billion.

    Or do you think that the 'end of the Entire World' is before the 82 years from now?

    There are probably billion(s) of children who are waiting for the end of this weekend, Monday, School day.

    -

    The number of people enrolled in America’s schools reached 77.2 million in 2016, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. Since 1996, total school enrollment has grown 9.9 percent.

    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2017/school-enrollment.html


    Enrollment in kindergarten through eighth grade,
    high school(s)....
    college enrollment

    In the U.S alone. 77.2 million is

    77.2 million out of 325 million is 23.753 %. Around 24 percent of The U.S. is enrolled in either kindergarten through eighth grade or highschool or college.


    That leaves 76%. The percent of U.S retired, 65 years and over, is at about 15 percent. That leaves 61 percent, or, 198.25 million.


    Why only 15 percent, or 48.75 million within 325 million?

    Because if they are 65 years today, they would have been born in the year 1953. The U.S population in 1953 was 160.2 million. 48.75 million children born in the year 1953 would have meant that there were at least 48.75 million 'males' and 48.75 million 'females' who would have been together, or 97.5 million which leaves 62.7 million. Which might mean that around 61 percent of the population were 'married' in the year 1953. The other 62.7 million, might not have left any offspring but still passed on.


    Those born in the year 1970, 17 years after 1953, are 17 years behind. Those born in 1980 are 27 years behind. Those born in 1990 are 37 years behind.

    Those born in 1970 would be 48 years today, which is 17 years before 65.
    Those born in 1980 would be 38 years today, which is 27 years before 65.
    Those born in 1990 would be 28 years today, which is 37 years before 65.


    So if you are 18 years old today, you have 47 years before you are 65, age of acceptable retirement. 47 years is 17,155 days in which to prepare for your retirement 'life'.


    17,155 days is 411,720 hours... At 40 hours per week/full time gainful employment you basically spend 1/4 of your hours employed.

    8 hours a day, out of a 24 hour day + weekends.

    8 hours/24 hours = 1/3
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I find the description of the world economy of the year 2185 that is given here to be profoundly encouraging.

    But..... it doesn't just happen...... we humans have power to alter the future by our choices.

    https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/howard-storm.html#a04
     
  19. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    40 hours/168 hours (7 full days) = 4.2 or 23.8% of total week hours.
     
  20. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    167 years from now? Will the world still be using the current financial systems?

    I thought I heard India is thinking of reverting its financial currency to its original system before the current rupee.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  21. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    "Know! You need to judge every person favorably, even someone who is completely wicked, you need to search and find any little bit of good. By finding in him a little good and judging him favorably you actually bring him over to the side of merit and you can return him in teshuva" (Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, LM 282)

    Matthew 5:44
    "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"


    Proverbs 17:15 "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD."

    Proverbs 24:24 "He that saith unto the wicked, Thou art righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:"

    Proverbs 24:25 "But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them."


    Although I learned the 'basics' while growing up as far as just and right and wrong and evil, and even when I became as an adult to put away my childish things, I would still need a Teacher to continue me on the path of knowledge and Right, right?


    Luke 18:19 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."



    I ask many, 'How are you doing'? They respond, 'I'm going good'.

    I get asked many times, 'How are you doing? Doing good?'


    John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."


    Commandments? Like saying I'm doing 'good' when asked how i'm doing?

    'I'm doing good'. I guess that would mean that I'm doing 'God', or trying to be Good as God is Good.

    Then why does that 'good' seem to wear down after a few hours?

    How did 'I'm doing good', or 'Are you doing good', turn to shouts and cursings across the work floor in the same work day?


    Matthew 5:44
    "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"


    This goes beyond the Golden Rule.

    Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them:.."

    (do unto others as you would done unto you)


    If I hated another person, wanted that person destroyed and hurt, if I spited another, if i cursed another, would I really want that person to be 'good' towards me?


    Matthew 5:44
    "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"


    From the English language standpoint and reading, it would appear as such as written. But from the Greek comparison standpoint, the English standpoint seems ridiculous.


    So they why are the top leaders of Christian theology to the entire World coming out from the U.S with its sets of doctrines and teachings?

    How is this anything truly go(o)dly for The U.S?


    This was spoken to those within Israel, Matthew 23:15 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.", but i see striking similarities everywhere around the Globe.


    Of course the scribes and Pharisees didn't think of themselves as [intentional] children of hell, but according to (J)esus Christ, they were.


    There are some intentional children of hell and there are others who are unknowingly children of hell.


    Here is a serious question... Are others in other Countries in the same mind frame as many secular persons are in The U.S when it comes to the topic of God? Kind of as, not that important, etc....? Would I even know the answer to this question seeing that I never actually traveled and asked them there in those places? In other words, do I just automatically assume that all youths are the same everywhere when it comes to certain topics?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good points... I think that part of the answer is that the Jewish Bible is very much for judges, priests and Kings who have to rebuke and punish evil..........whereas the Christian Bible and the Sermon on the Mount are directed to ordinary people...... and how they can live their lives........ in such a way as to bring the Kingdom of G-d to the earth........




     
  23. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    How? Via the mind?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
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  24. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am of the opinion that just about the best that we can do with our mind.........
    is admit that this cannot be accomplished with our mind.......
    and we need to pray with chutzpah to be given the Love of G-d into our hearts and minds.........
    .......... Simply being religious is not even close to being good enough to actually have living waters flowing out of our innermost being to those around us........
     

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