US Ambassador Richard Grenell threatens German firms over Russian pipeline

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Striped Horse, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which was exactly what the papers I was reading was suggesting was the only thing holding Europe/others back and stopping the EU from completely branching out on its own for the time being. Could be that baskets of currencies would be the best way forward. We have seen under the US just how much damage all the power being in one place can do to the world.
     
  2. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Exactly Alexa. We know what hasn't and doesn't work. We know what the US has become. Time for something new and a different approach. If it happens I'll be the first to buy a round.
     
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Should we heed your sage advice in our dealings with Russia on the International Space Station? Are we thus 'ensnared'?
     
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  4. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    The EU already does. Libya and Syria should be a clue. Then there was the French with the Ivory Coast and Mali and always looking to file resolutions on other countries.

    So save the spit about the EU not being like the US. Although the US doesn't think it is the center of the universe as does the Europeans.
     
  5. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    What have you observed that wasn't told to you by outside sources?
     
  6. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    "Russian gas sales to Europe last year were at record levels," said Ed Chow, who studies energy and national security at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "Russians will always have a cost advantage. And if they want to protect market share, all they have to do is lower the price.".....snip~

    https://www.npr.org/2018/07/20/630659379/is-trump-the-toughest-ever-on-russia


    So much for the BS about the US from the Anti Americans.
    The US will always be at a disadvantage vs Russia with energy.
     
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Buying product from another country is not "surrendering". What nonsensical gibberish.
     
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  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cant blame Germany for buying at a lower price.
     
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  9. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    Nope you can't. If they want to trust Russia. That's on them. But if Russia cuts them off, temp turn off. Don't come crying and whining to anyone else. Handle it with Putin themselves.
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why on earth would Russia cut them off ? This would be insane.
     
  11. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    Disputes on other matters would be a reason too. Its not really that difficult to surmise.
     
  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Disputes happen between nations on a regular basis .. they do not turn of gas supply over these issues. Russia doing such a thing would be suicide - a massive blunder on the geopolitical chessboard. Russia is not prone to such blunders. On the contrary - Russia is playing a darn good game and will continue to do so in the future. This is what makes them dangerous as competitors.

    You are not looking at the big picture. Russia today is not the communist Russia of old. They are fully vested in capitalism. As such - they represent competition to the US. We don't like this and nor should we.. what company likes competition ?

    Part of our success depends on marginalizing our competition - like Russia and China. And this is exactly what we have been doing.

    At the same time you have the rest of the world all competing. Europe is a big player. Our close relationship to Europe (the EU) through NATO and other things is important with respect to global economic issues. Sanctions on Iran for example, N. Korea, Russia and China.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45596485

    Sanctions are not worth much if other nations do not join in. Having the EU (and others such as China, India and so on) disregard these Sanctions is then a win for Russia. The EU in particular because they have typically sided with the US but India has been a fairly close ally as well - although not anything close to the importance of the EU.

    Pulling out of the Iran deal against the wishes of the rest of the Security Council (and Germany) is one thing. Usurping the sovereignty of our closest EU allies via forcing them to abide by unilateral US sanctions is another. The way that we did it - using the "Nuclear Option" is yet another.

    The nuclear option is using our control of the international system of payments (Sole US world reserve currency status) as a cudgel.

    This was a major blunder - Full Stop. It was a risky move to begin with with some upside were it successful - but major downside if not.

    The move was not successful. There was a major major backlash from the EU. There was also a backlash from India -and - not unexpectedly from China.

    The world for years has been clamoring for an alternate to the US dollar and the US controlled system of international payments - the "SOLE" world reserve currency. That said - if you would have asked me 5 years ago "when do you think a legitimate competitor will arise" I would have responded "decades". Despite the 2008 financial catastrophe - there was no serious efforts to develop a competitor.

    Now if you ask me the say question ? 5 years max. There have been major efforts among the worlds largest economies - including the EU - to develop an alternative ... a legitimate competitor.

    When one arises - and there is already competition such as the Petro Yuan - introduced last year, the history books will mark that point in history as the defacto end of the US world economic empire.

    The Petro Yuan and various others that have cropped up are not legitimate competitors .. but, it is the beginning of a process that will end up with a legitimate competitor.
     
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  13. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Exactly my point. What's good for the US should also be good for the EU and, for example, China, India, Russia etc etc. The days of a uni-polar American dominated world and its "exceptionalism" are over and you guys need to wake up and understand that.

    Btw, the EU is not like the EU. It doesn't spend a fortune annually on the military, it doesn't have over 800 military bases and facilities around the world, it doesn't have European military bases in America etc. I could go on and on about the differences.

    Secondly the US does think it's the centre of the universe. It has thought this way since the Second World War and that arrogant attitude grew far worse with the end of the Soviet bloc circa 1989/90 (I cite the Wolfowitz Doctrine as clear and unequivocal evidence of this).

    Having said all that, I do not favour the EU, so don't think I'm advocating for them. I'm not. I have serious concerns about them. I'm simply pointing out your flawed thinking and stereotypical responses (anti-American foreign policy equates to pro European foreign policy).
     
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  14. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    Then lets just abandon Nato. Germany has nothing to fear from Russia, Russia would never exert power over its neighbors.
     
  15. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    Well, I didn't think you were Anti American like the rest of those overseas that are always whining and crying about the US. Blaming the US for everything and anything. I prefer their people handle the bad boys.

    Myself, I don't think the US should play Policeman all over the world. Nor do I think we should feed all kind of starving people nor save their asses when Natural disasters strike.

    I rather watch the world call on the Europeans to save the day, Russia or China. Then laugh when they are a no show. Thinking when will the rest of the world learn about those they so admire.
     
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This idea that we are saving folks (not referring so much to natural disasters but the idea in general) - a force for Good in the world - while true in some cases - is the reverse in others.

    Saving the poor Iraqi's from Saddam ? How did that work out - we turned the nation into a Jihadist wonderland and killed hundreds of thousands of people for no good reason - a war based on lies and false narrative.

    Saving the poor Libyans from Ghaddafi ? How did that turn out - we turned the nation into a Jihadist wonderland where slavery is now common and a host of other barbaric nightmares. We made a deal with Ghaddafi to give up his WMD and nuke program in return for security .. and then attacked the guy. Then we turn around and say to Lil Kim in North Korea - we are going to use the Ghaddafi formula.

    Saving the Syrian's from "Assad" ? - How is arming and supporting an insurgency led by Al Qaeda and other radical Islamist's of the same Saudi inspired nutjob ideology - doing the Syrian People some kind of favor ?

    This action led to the destruction of Syria - 500,000 dead and counting, the refugee crisis which has further spread the plague of Islamist extremist ideology over the world - and the rise of the modern incarnation of ISIS.

    The people of Syria are the ones fighting against Al Qaeda and ISIS. These folks -along with Russia - were the one's that defeated Al Qaeda/ISIS - not the US. The US were the ones arming and supporting these groups during the majority of the war.

    Saving the People of Yemen from the Houthi's ? Again fighting on the same side as Al Qaeda. How is handing the nation over to Islamist extremists - not that the Houthi's are some pillar of moderation but they are not Al Qaeda/Saudi Arabia. The fact of the matter is that the revolution against the Gov't of Yemen - led by the Houthi's was a popular revolution. Can you tell me that this is not what the majority of the people of Yemen wanted ?

    Save them ? Save who ? The above list is just recent history - God forbid we go back a few decades.

    Our foreign policy has little to do with "saving people" and a whole lot to do with economic interests.
     
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  17. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    When were any of them considered a Natural disaster. Answer.....not one of them.

    You're reaching to much.
     
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It says in my post I am not referring to natural disasters. The point was about the "we save people" narrative in general. The whole "we are a force for good in the world" narrative which commented on.

    Do you have reading issues or is it comprehension that is the problem
     
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  19. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Of course they do. The United States was embargoed once upon a time, despite being the largest customer of oil producing countries at the time.

    In any transactional relationship both sides of leverage. This is a fundamental social and political rule.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
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  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is a false dichotomy on many levels.
     
  21. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    False dichotomy? I don't even see a dichotomy.
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are comparing two situations - as if they are the same - when they are not.
     
  23. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    That's not a false dichotomy or even dichotomy. More importantly, I'm comparing a general statement you made about trade and political disputes.

    And it's directly comparable in the following sense: The fact that OPEC controlled so much of the oil going into the United States gave them significant leverage over us, assuming they were willing to trade their pain for ours. They were, and they did. The Russians and Germans are putting themselves into the same boat as we and OPEC nations. That makes the Americans, and a lot of Europeans, uncomfortable. And it should.

    Now, my prediction is that Germany will hold more leverage over Russia than vice versa, and indeed I believe that if you look at how Russian politics operate, and look at basic economic data, you come to see as inevitable German domination of Russia.
     
  24. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Why are you calling him the "US Viceroy?"
     
  25. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    As I endlessly repeat: I am anti American foreign policy not anti American. There's a very big difference between the two.

    Of course the US should not be the policeman of the world - no one asked it to be; this was exclusively an American neocon idea puked up after the end of the Soviet Union.

    ^^^^^

    Btw, you have introduced whole sentences into my post 38 that are yours and which I did not write. You have not made it clear they are yours.

    For the record, the following sentences introduced into my post No. 38 are yours and not mine (this isn't at all made clear). These are as follows:

    1) "The problem comes in with the EU helping those all over the world. Showing up for natural disasters and saving people. Why don't we hear about all of that?"

    2) "No, it just uses those bases. Did you forget they wanted US Bases in Europe for protection? Plus then they always need some sort of assistance to get their people wherever."

    3) "Actually we don't think we are the Center of the Universe. Maybe Neo Cons and Neo Libs do. I would go with that the US wasn't calling itself a Super Power until others overseas gave us the label."
     

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