Us AR-15 the perfect gun ??

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Quasar44, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    For a citizen

    Even a novice can shoot it ok
    You have big clips and very accurate

    Try shooting a big caliber hand gun and you will most likely miss without training most of the time

    I don’t know if they jam a lot
    It seems far better than a clunky shotgun
     
  2. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Such would depend. Ultimately how is perfection being measured? "Perfect" for what exactly?
     
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  3. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

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    An AR-15 uses a magazine, not a clip.

    Some good firearms use a clip. Like an M1 Garand, a SKS, a 1903 Springfield, and several other firearms.
     
  4. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Big clips? For clipping to a belt? And they make an AR very accurate?
    Far better than a clunky shotgun? For what purpose? Shooting clays? Bird hunting? Protection against bears in the AK Bush?
    Please explain and share your expertise.
     
  5. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Firearms are like tools or motor vehicles or houses. There is no "perfect" firearm. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. It all depends on what you think you need it for.

    An AR-15 is accurate, has low recoil, and it holds a lot of rounds. On the other hand, you can't carry it concealed.

    And yes, a novice can shoot it. But a novice owner also needs to know how to operate all of its controls (charging handle, sighting system, safety, magazine release), how to clear malfunctions, how to safely carry it, how to zero it, and how to break it down for cleaning, how to clean it, and how to reassemble it. You should have it in a case if you're transporting it anywhere. And since you can't carry it with you everywhere, it needs security - like a safe.

    Contrast that to a 5-shot .38 cal snub nose revolver. It is not as accurate, and it only carries 5 rounds. But, with a concealed carry permit, you can easily carry it almost anywhere. Loading, unloading, firing, safety, and cleaning procedures are simple, even for a novice. And, if it's a modern revolver, clean, with fresh ammo, it is very, very reliable.

    So it just all depends on what you need it for, how much you want to spend, and how much time and money you're willing to invest into training and practice.
     
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  6. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Shhhhh. Let it stand. After all, the legislation springing from this expertise will result in banning clips with greater than 10 rnds.
     
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  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    No.
    The AR10/15 may, however, be the perfect platform.
     
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  8. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They jam less when using assault clips! If it does jam, there's always the chainsaw under barrel attachment as a back up.
     
  9. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The guns don't use clips. They use magazines. Gun users use clips to load the magazines. Then they can shoot what's in the magazine.

    AR-15s can also use clips to load magazines.
     
  10. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Almost every time I've seen someone self-proclaim to be a gun rights supporter and they know as little about guns as your remarks make me believe that you know, it turns out they're just trolling.
     
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  11. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    I don’t know much about guns ..i am a novice
     
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  12. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

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    AR mags are loaded either by hand or a magazine loader. The mags are then inserted into the rifle from the bottom.

    SKS's have a fixed magazine that can be loaded one at a time or with a stripper clip.

    1903's have a detachable magazine which can be loaded by hand with or without the magazine in the rifle. Or with a clip with the magazine inserted in the rifle.

    M1 Garands use a clip. The clip ejects when the last round is spent.
     
  13. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What are these?

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Honesty erases all doubt. Thank you.
     
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  15. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    I am NOT one to pretend on anything
    I also know zero about Art, Chemistry , Poetry and cooking
    To name a few
     
  16. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Organizers.
     
  17. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

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    Rounds on a strip and an ammo. can with a label on it. The only writing I can make out on the label is FEDERAL ammunition and a 1.4S. There's a couple of bar codes as well.

    Other than that, you tell me or put up a pic. that we can make out what the label says.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  18. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's 5.56 ammo on a clip for loading magazines for AR-15/M4/M16 weapons. AR-15s use clips to load magazines. Just because there are other alternative ways to load, this is a standard way.

    Oh, look: a USGI (United States Government Issue) clip loader for an M16:

     
  19. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

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    And there was a point you were trying to make?

    If so, what was it?
     
  20. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You said that AR-15s don't use clips; I explained that they're used for loading magazines; your post in #12 appears to challenge that.
     
  21. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

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    An AR-15 rifle is loaded with a magazine. The magazines are loaded by hand or with a magazine tool loader, just like your video says. The mags are then inserted into the rifle from the bottom, just like I said. A "clip" doesn't load the rifle.

    SKS's have a fixed magazine that can be loaded one at a time or with a stripper clip. (You put the clip into the rifle to load it.)

    1903's have a detachable magazine which can be loaded by hand with or without the magazine in the rifle. Or with a clip with the magazine inserted in the rifle. (You put the clip into the rifle to load it.) Same with an Enfield and several other rifles.

    M1 Garands use a clip. You put the whole clip loaded with eight rounds in the clip into the rifle.The clip ejects when the last round is spent.
    You seem to have company.
     
  22. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Eh. The direct impingement operation of most ARs is more heavily dependent on a precise chamber pressure, or cycling can be interrupted (causing a jam). The pressure requirements piston operated systems like the AK allow a larger margin of error. This problem is less than it used to be with improvements such as spring metallurgy, but pistons are still more reliable in adverse conditions or with inconsistent ammunition. However, ARs these days are more part-swappable than most other rifles, especially in the US. Direct impingement has a higher potential rate of fire than piston rifles, but we're all capped at semi-auto so that isn't much of a factor in the civilian world.

    It used to be that the AR was the racecar of rifles and the AK was the pickup truck. But now ARs are cheaper and easier to find than AKs, and modern AKs use a similar round to the AR, so i dunno if thats as applicable anymore. I think ARs are more consitently accurate, but a few of the higher quality AKs can match up.

    I'm still an AK guy, but mostly just because I prefer my rifle made of steel over aluminum.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
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  23. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    An AR-15 doesn't use clips, loading the mag might, but the AR-15 doesn't, so what's your point?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2020
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  24. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The AR-15 platform uses clips. What I said is that the clips can be used to load the magazines. Am I wrong?
     
  25. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ChoppedLiver listed a few other guns that use clips in the same way - to load magazines. In that same statement where he listed other guns that use clips to load magazines, he stated that the AR-15 does not use clips. I corrected him; the AR-15 uses clips in the same way as the other guns that use clips that he listed. The only difference is that the AR-15 loads a removable magazine with the clips and the others load a fixed magazine with the clips. He claimed the M1 is different because it uses clips.

    The M1 is only different in that the clip that loads the magazine stays in the gun while shooting but, like all the others that he implied are different, the M1 uses a clip to load the magazine.

    I wouldn't have mentioned that the guns use clips; I usually just go with the correction of clips to magazines when those who get their gun knowledge from CNN say clips. But, in this case, ChoppedLiver made a statement that I just corrected; rather than letting it drop or acknowledging his error, he chose to make an argument out of it.

    He was wrong but won't acknowledge it; all of those weapons use clips to load magazines. It's not required that he acknowledge that he's wrong; he could have just let my correction stand unchallenged. Instead, he chose to make a direct attack, saying I was a gun novice and that he's right and I'm wrong. I've proven him wrong but he continues to argue that the AR-15 is different from those guns, that all of those use clips except that the AR-15 does not. He's either ignorant or just wants to argue and is unwilling to admit error.

    Ignorance happens; that's understandable. Not being willing to accept that one is wrong when proven wrong is a personality flaw. You're free to jump on his bandwagon if you choose but you'd be as wrong as he is. All of the guns he listed as using clips, use clips to load magazines. The one he excepted, the AR-15, uses clips to load magazines.
     

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