US CHINA in Shock as India gets Military Base in Indonesia

Thailand was the natural fire break as was India.

Containment is a failure unless the people are really behind containment.
Vietnam and Afghanistan are example of 2 peoples who do not tolerate outside influences.
Laos and Cambodia were victims of bad governments propped up by
As with Vietnam, the peoples' choice was bad gov't or USSR aid.
Imagine if we had said "No!" to France in 1919 or even 1945. blew it,
and containment is just a bogeyman. We get along with Communist Vietnam pretty well today.

Burn In Hell George Kennan.
Spooky, one of Kennan's victims.

 

Modern communism isn't the same as it was back then.

Technically it might be but you also have to remember the times. The USSR was actively pursuing an expansionist policy and while it ultimately wasn't very successful it was certainly ongoing. That is what we were combating.

In hindsight, sure, we could have not interfered and been just fine but when you are going through it you don't know.

I'm sure there are many people that thought leaving the Nazi Empire alone would have just allowed them to fade away but you can never know for sure.

The fact is that we showed we were willing to fight against communism anywhere and anytime and although we will never be able to measure how much of an impact that actually had, I'm sure it had some.

 

they're just continuing the cultural tradition started under the emperors...now like imperial China there weren't any elections with changing governments to mess up long term projects ...China has always been a science/fact based society so the long term projects aren't interfered with by non fact/science based politicians pandering to the uneducated masses...

 

It must really burn your arss that Israel has received 100 times as much aid as India per capita

 

india doesn't share mutual interest with US, they have their own interest, that is to buy US tech, drum up their industry. once they got that, they dont need US anymore.

 

I disagree

India needs the US to help them resist china

 

Yeah ... and then the US blames the rest of NATO about the huge military budget the US has in comparison to the rest ... when most of this money has nothing to do with any sort of NATO but with such issue sof own pure US interests around the globe!

 

India used to be pro soviet and anti American

But then the soviet union went belly up leaving India rather isolated...

 

they just take advantage of situation and get as much tech as possible from US to do their made in india slogan

 

That's hilarious. The domino theory was that if one country fell to the Communists the adjoining countries would also fall just like a row of dominoes. South Vietnam fell to the Communists and the other dominoes did not fall.

And by the way the majority of the military support for North Vietnam came from China not Russia.

 

Possibly because the Americans fought for as long as they did. That's what Lee Kuan Yew believed.

But the spread of Communism into Southeast Asia wasn't really the primary American concern. The primary American concern was to show a willingness to fight Communism anywhere.

It was chiefly aimed at Soviet planners and American allies.

Understand that I'm not "pro-Vietnam war." I'm simply explaining it in terms beyond the simplistic "good-bad" that people usually do.

 

Can you imagine the smell inside those military barracks?

 

Why would China take it, they are getting everything they want anyway. Russia is very generous and was willing to share its wealth with Germany, but they're idiots and went along with Nuland and Co.

 

Bu, bu, bu, but, Chuckie Schmucker and his fellow travelers have been claiming Trump is the war monger looking to start a war with NoKo. Although there hasn't been a launch of a test missile in nearly a year or bomb test either. While Kim Jung Un is moving to comply with the agreement he made with Trump.

 

The dominoes fell in Laos and then in Cambodia until Vietnam had to go in and kick some Khmer Rouge butt.

Unlike the Soviets neither China or Vietnam were in the business of expanding communism throughout the world.

The Khmer Rouge and the Pathet Lao were useful idiots of the Kremlin.

The Vietnam War gave Thailand a decade to secure their borders preventing the Soviet Unions useful idiots from infiltrating into Thailand.

Re: military support for North Vietnam.

The Chi-Coms provided large numbers of AK-47's (Type-56) and hand grenades to North Vietnam paid for by the USSR.

All SKS's I came across were Soviet.

You could distinguish a Soviet AK-47 from a Chi-Com Type-56 (AK-47) from a couple of hundred feet away.

All of the heavy automatic weapons, howitzers, rockets, tanks, trucks, Mig fighters, helicopters, anti aircraft guns and SAM's, radios were Soviet or Eastern Bloc.

When we would come across a NVA weapons cache we had to look at ever weapon and write down where they were manufactured. Look at the ammunition and it was usually Soviet or Easter Block. When we came across new AK-47's still covered with cosmoline and if it was Soviet or Eastern Block we had to get on the radio and report it to G-2.

 

They will take it because they can...because they're Chinese and Russia is weak.

 

It burns me that any foreign country is getting US taxpayer money, especially when the constitution prohibits it.

 

You have been lied to. The Constitution does not such thing.

 

Foreign aid is a system by which the American taxpayers are forced, in the name of national security or defense of the “free world,” or charity, or whatever the politicians tell us, to subsidize US export companies and prop up client states that are often ruled by dictators.
Constitutionally, of course, none of this spending is authorized. The US Constitution was written under what is referred to as “positive grant.” In short, what this means is that the federal government is authorized to engage in only those activities specifically authorized by the Constitution. Positive = authorized activities. Grant = specifically listed.
Just to make sure this principle was legally codified, the Tenth Amendment was included:

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”​

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2007/06/03/foreign-aid-follies/

 

Section 8
1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

So how does giving India taxpayer money "provide for the defense and general welfare of the United States"?

 

general Welfare of the United States...it means whatever congress and the courts want it to mean

there's nothing in the Constitution that says we had to pay the Barbary Pirates but we did that way back in 1804...ain't the Constitution great!

 

It's nice when my country that most care nothing to learn about or discuss makes the headlines. I don't know what Indonesia gets with hosting a military base for India here, but better them than China or the United States. China is always looking for ways to expand its borders and the United States' foreign policy in the Middle East is not popular here. India's only real enemy is Pakistan. While China does not appreciate India protecting the Dalai Lama, it's hardly something that would escalate military tensions.

 

From what I've read China and Russia are very close and may well be aligned militarily too. That might answer one of your questions?

In regard to the Sabang Port agreement, China is clearly watching this development with care and have hinted that should India decide to turn the port into an Indian military installation, they will, in turn, develop quid-pro-quo military bases in the Indian Ocean, and have hinted that the Sri Lankan Hambantota port, where China has a 99 year lease, may be the first countermeasure (HERE).

I think it clear that the emerging powers of this century are China and India.

 

Your grasp of history is appalling. Laughable even.

Indochina didn't fall because of a theory, it fell because it was one big war. Had Sth Vietnam fallen in before the war got big in 1964 it is highly likely that Cambodia would have remained non-Communist. It was only the political instability caused by the presence of large numbers of Vietnamese troops in eastern Cambodia & to a lesser extent US bombing of those troops that created enough momentum to remove Sihanouk. Lon Nol & the Phnom Penh elites led by Sirik Matak would never have moved on him without that aggravating factor. Lon Nol in particular was very reluctant, and he controlled the military.

It is harder to say with Laos, as the Vietnamese Communists & their Lao allies/clients controlled large parts of that nation from the early 50s (that was before US intervention in case you are unclear). Laos was a mess, so it might have become a Vietnamese client state, it might have become a Chinese client state or it might have bumbled on. There is simply no way to know how that would have turned out absent the impact of the war.

Thailand was not under threat. It had a long running Communist insurgency, but that was not a major threat. The fact that the Thais threw out the US in 1976, just a year after Indochina went communist, tells you that they didn't see an immediate threat. The communist threat to Malaya was gone by 1960. It is not remotely clear that any event in Indochina would have made the PKI in Indonesia any more dangerous.

In every single case local factors were predominant in determining outcomes, not some ill informed abstract theory. Maybe if the US had paid more attention to local factors & less to abstract theories Vietnam might have turned out differently. The domino theory was a fairy tale. Those are best left for kiddies.

 

Yes it does.

China is a minimum of a generation ahead of India in naval power, probably more. China has an impressive naval shipbuilding capacity & is turning out everything from patrol boats to aircraft carriers. It lacks the experience of the US in designing & operating such ships, but it is making ground. That also means it has excellent maintenance capabilities.

India has improved its capabilities in recent years, but is still well behind. Domestic manufacturing is on the improve, but it has a long way to go to match China. Fortunately for India its ambitions are a bit smaller. it needs to be able to suppress Pakistan and deny China any sort of enduring presence in the region. It can do both. India does have the advantage of a powerful strategic position, with the ability of land based aircraft to dominate maritime approaches, especially to the east. A base in Indonesia will help strengthen that position.