US considers deploying missiles to counter alleged Russian nuke treaty violation

Discussion in 'Security & Defenses' started by Ostap Bender, Jun 6, 2015.

  1. Ostap Bender

    Ostap Bender Well-Known Member

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    USA wants 'preemptive destroy Russian nukes, thats clearly means due to Obama and Merkel our world will soon cease to exist.The western world is indeed governed by devils who pursue to annihilate our civilization.Before USA destroys Russian nukes Putin will send thousands of them back destination New York, Berlin, Paris or Oslo.While Merkel and Obama are continuously cursing alleged Putin 'aggression' in Ukraine in reality they want to destroy the Earth due to their incredible stupidity and criminality. Unfortunately WWIII is unavoidable therefore Russia shall better leave all western clubs like PACE etc. (futile wasting of time and money ) and prepare itself to a nuclear stroke from the USA.Interesting whether Germans will be thankful to Merkel who in a very short time transformed Russia from friends to enemies and brings hundred of US-nukes to Germany.



    http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/art...counter-alleged-russian-nuke-treaty-violation


    [video=youtube;rnnHFU5RjMQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnnHFU5RjMQ[/video]
     
  2. ballantine

    ballantine Banned

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    Ha ha - this is news?

    The US has been planning preemptive nuclear strikes against Russia ever since 1946.

    Wake me up when Putin stops feeding you silly propaganda, 'kay?

    LMAO :)
     
  3. Kiwi33

    Kiwi33 New Member

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    If the USA strike the first, Rocket strategic forces of Russia will put the final end in the history of the USA.

    That the USA came down to direct nuclear missile blackmail concerning Russia, once again visually illustrates, the threat to peace came from USA.

    In Europe is necessary do anti-war movement as the USA turn the continent into a gunpowder keg. It can blow up!

    Consolidation of all healthy forces in Europe is necessary to prevent slipping in the third world war. The USA play very bad game, a situation dangerous, - the military expert, the editor-in-chief of the National Defense magazine Igor Korotchenko noticed in the Twitter
     
  4. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    Says here that it is to counter Russia breaking a treatie.

    This thread title is a lie and I believe the thread is too
     
  5. ballantine

    ballantine Banned

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    That's the gambit? You think you're going to convince the Europeans to come over to the Russian side with this idiotic propaganda? So there can be one united continent and one gigantic superpower to outstrip even the US? Oh, let me guess, with Putin in charge, right?

    LMAO. That pipe dream is right up there with the Islamic caliphate. ;)
     
  6. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    This is true to an extent. The moment the US launches a nuke strike Russia will respond in kind. Nobody 'wins', everyone loses-and dies.
     
  7. cameron

    cameron New Member

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    This was obvious.

    The US -thanks to corrupt politicians- is literally broke. The 101% GDP ratio caused by Obama's policies is the crude reality that will force the US going to war instead of accepting economic defeat and start paying the huge debt.

    Russia and China have stopped accepting US dollars, and this action will cause the economic falling of the US, UK and Europe economies.

    On one hand, China and Russia have all the right to reject the dollar, that is their strategy to push their own currencies up internationally.

    On the other hand, the Federal Bank has printed dollars without backing them up with gold, and the status of trillions of dollars around the world is of the same value of the Monopoly game money: Zero.

    While the zero value dollars are running internationally, nobody will notice any difference.

    But, having those dollars returning back to the US will cause the worst economic disaster in the world: the US in bankruptcy due to its huge national debt plus inflation due to the returning of zero value currency bills.

    Plus, if no dollars are accepted by other countries, such means that the US must start to trade with goods, but today the US is not producing much.

    What is the "best solution"?

    WAR.

    War against Russia first, so the duet will be divided.

    But, here is the play card under the table which may change the game: China may intervene first as a surprise out coming.

    Our populations are brainwashed that those countries are the enemy, but those countries are not the ones who caused our huge national debt, those countries are not the ones who printed dollars without value, those countries just want to receive the owed by the US not with dollars but with goods, a right that the US must demand from other countries that have a doubted valuable currency.

    The real enemy of the US is the corrupt politicians. Our own politicians are the ones who have carried the US to this deep hole that is our national debt, our corrupt politicians are the ones who blind themselves and gave green light to the Federal Bank to print dollars without value.

    If you are smart, do not participate in a war that will be made to cover the corruption of our politicians.

    Demand production in the US and... I know this is hard for you to swallow the following but... start to pay what is owed...
     
  8. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    Much uncomfortable truth here. Historically a nation's economic woes have been solved through war and there's no reason to assume it won't be a continuing theme.
     
  9. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

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    In this case, Russia is to supply missiles in Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua and Russia Chukotka. To counter America.
     
  10. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    Preventive what?

    Unrealistic or insane, chose what you like best.

    It's impossible to destroy all the nuclear arsenal of Russia in a while [the same about the American and the Chinese one, there are good hopes about the Indian and Pakistani one, also the British and the French are substantially impossible to be totally destroyed].

    This would generate a retaliation which would make who has written such an idiocy realize he is [or she is] an idiot.
     
  11. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

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    Sadists and maniacs in Washington are leading the world toward nuclear war. But Stalin at one time made efforts to that American maniacs did not remain unanswered.
     
  12. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    So is this thread like a little hideaway where we pretend Russia is wonderful and Putin is King Arthur incarnate and that Russia is not after the same things the U.S. is being accused of, namely economic domination and regional hegemony?
     
  13. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Why doesn't Putin just buy Europe with all the money he has stolen from the Russian People?
     
  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The big lie is that anti ballistic missiles(ABM's) are to counter Russia breaking a treaty. There is actually a few lies going on here and a number "necessary illusions".

    The first lie is that (ABM's) are a counter to Russia breaking the cold war nuke treaties. The reality is that we were the ones that forced Russia to break those treaties by unilaterally pulling out of the ABM treaty in 2002. Putin's comment at the time "this is a mistake".

    Why would we even enter into a treaty forbidding us to make missiles to shoot down the other guys missiles ? Is it because we were stupid back during the Reagan era and somehow got smarter ? No Sir ! The reason for the ABM treaty is so that some buckaroo does not get the hair brained idea that a nuclear war is winnable thinking that after a first strike we can shoot the other guys missiles down.

    Violation of this treaty threatens nuclear detente which forces Russia to take counter measures.

    Lie # 2 is then that Russia provoked this. It is the US/NATO that provoked this. Not only did we withdraw from the ABM treaty in 2002. In 2007 we started putting ABM's on Russian Borders.

    Lie #3 (implied and part of the necessary illusion) is that we have the ability to be secure from the Russian Nuclear threat and that Missile defense might be an effective way of ensuring security. The other lie/illusion is that Russia has been violating strategic agreements on some expansionist path. Look at a map over time and what you see is NATO expanding (in violation of agreements in some cases) and Russia's sphere of influence shrinking.

    The folks who made the ABM treaty (on both sides) realized that there was no way to ensure security and so they took measures to prevent the rush to war in a desire to avoid mutual annihilation. What is happening now is so stupid it is painful - forcing Russia to take counter measures.

    Missile defense is easily thwarted by nuclear subs which can park a few hundred miles off our shores and blow us into the stone age. Just one sub can take out 160 US cities. Strike 160 cities of population 500,000 or more off the map and let me know whats left. That is "one sub". Roughly 500 ballistic nukes contaminates the entire continental US with radioactive fallout.. The US (and Russia as we would do the same) would be reduced to red "no go zones" on the map. Russia can launch 5000 such missiles and we have no realistic way to stop them.

    Another counter (and Russia mentioned this one) is nukes in space. It takes 30 min for a Russian nuke to get here. It would not make me sleep better at night knowing there was a Russia nuke in the sky above my head 30 seconds away.

    The counter that Russia chose to build short and intermediate range nukes (which violates the short and intermediate range treaty). Russia would then just take our missile defense prior to launch with nuclear cruise missiles. This would be done in conjunction with taking out our satellites.

    In many ways folks today are far more ignorant than those a few generations ago. Just listen to eloquence and substance of the speeches from Presidents and Politicians in decades gone by..

    Now we have the Obama on TV (last year) complaining about Russia violating the short and intermediate range treaty and no one even knows what this is never mind understand any of the history. Of course the Obama-clown-puppet failed to mention that ... BTW - we were the ones that forced Russia to do this. None of the mainstream media mentioned this. Not Red, Blue or Middle and the Political talking heads fell silent.

    This is one of those "inconvenient truths" that, if spoken, can quickly destroy one's career or worse.

    Just keep the money flowing into the military/defense oligopoly which currently eats up over 1 Trillion annually or roughly 30% of our income.

    In order to keep this money flowing the "necessary illusions" must be maintained. 1) there is this huge enemy which represents a huge threat and we have the ability to secure ourselves from this threat if we just spend ourselves into oblivion.

    Make sure that there are many threats because if there is just one, too many people might figure out the lies. Make sure there is "threat overload" so that the few voices that protest will be lost in the cacophony.

    Every time you turn around the "fear factor" is thrown in your face. Fox of course is an arm of the military oligopoly (regularly having ex generals on spouting the merits of war but failing to mention these folks are on the oligopoly payroll) which spews fear non stop but, they all do it.

    One of my favorite moments was when the Obama-clown said "if we want increased security - we have to give a little" in reference to the NSA spying en mass.

    So what is this great threat, this scary boogieman, that we are to be so scared of that we roll over like submissive lap dogs and give up individual rights and freedoms ? Terrorism - now that is scary stuff.

    We have been safer since stats started to be collected in the 70's. "newsflash" - folks knew how to make bombs back then too !.

    The risk of harm to a US citizen form terrorism is currently 400 times less than the risk of harm from "walking". If you drive a car the risk is many thousands of time greater.

    This is the great threat that we rush to hide from, cowering under the table begging the government to take away our rights and freedoms to make us secure from this horrible threat.

    What happened to "land of the free" "home of the brave" ? What is this place where it is somehow "Patriotic" to give up individual rights and freedoms - "Patriot Act". The use of Orwellian doublespeak is classic !

    Using "fear of an external threat" to take away rights and freedoms is nothing new. Compare Obama's " if we want increased security - we have to give up our rights and freedoms" to

    Ben Franklin "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security".

    Stalin used the "fear factor" fear of external and/or internal threat to take away liberty "Security for the Motherland"
    Hitler did the same "Fatherland Security"
    Bush did the same "Homeland Security"

    What do you think the Founders would have to say bout the Presidential clown puppets Bush, Obama, and the congressional rabble?

    How is it that land of the free, home of the brave has turned into "Land of the nanny state, home of the (I won't even say it - insert word here).
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course Russia is after the same thing we are. They have strategic interests just like we do. The joke is when we make war on other countries (directly or indirectly) and then cry like a baby when Russia does the same.

    The main difference is that we have done the things that we whine about Russia doing, far more often than Russia does them.
     
  16. stanfan

    stanfan New Member Past Donor

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    The dollar remains the reserve currency of the world. Nobody is going to replace it with the Chinese or Russian currency.

    America isn't planning any nuclear strike on Russia, however, if they were, they would get all the Russian nuclear rockets on the first try. We know where they are, we have the rockets, we have the stealth planes, and they never would know what hit them. Russia and China, long time animosity between these two nations, they are not going to the prom together anytime soon. China isn't about to lose its largest market, America, by dancing with someone like Putin.

    Besides - only two American President's ever existed with the will and stones to launch a nuclear attack since World War II - Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon. After those two, the well is dry of American President's with the conviction and drive to kick azz with the Russians. Neither Bush's would have done it. In foreign affairs, Carter was afraid of his shadow, and Ford wasn't in long enough to even venture a guess. The military hates the Clinton's and Obama and neither are or were capable of such an act. The slim possibility that Hillary Clinton might have her hand on the nuclear trigger probably scares American's more than it would ever scare Russia. Like Obama, she is no match in foreign policy against a Putin, and both tossed Israel aside. America is in the position to wreck the Russian's economy any time it want's to. Reagan knew his principles all his life, that the USSR was the "Evil Empire" and he eliminated it. Nixon actually threatened North Vietnam with nuclear destruction of Hanoi and Haiphong, in a special message sent by Henry Kissinger, that brought the North Vietnamese to the Paris negotiating table. You can bet their sponsor's at the time, Red China, got Nixon's message loud and clear, within minutes.

    As for Russian military capabilities, they no longer have the air force or the navy roaming the world, and would lose any confrontation. Our Ohio Class boomers would put most of the Western Part of Russia into the stone age, before NATO even had to mobilize if necessary.

    Gawd - tired of this Russian propaganda. They could never have defeated us in warfare once NATO was founded, and they are even weaker now militarily, and Putin's excursions into Crimea and Ukraine are going to blow up in his face, warfare wise and economically also. Russia doesn't have the money or the economy to return to the USSR days, Putin's time, like Obama's is limited, but I bet the former will disappear from the limelight quicker than Obama does. Things will continue exactly as they did throughout the Cold War, with each side supporting minor skirmishes and proxy wars, to avoid going after each other. Any of these countries; France; England; Germany; India; Pakistan could, and are much more likely to, get nervous enough to take out the Russian in a war. And if it ever came to that, no U.S. "boots on the ground" would be needed to defeat the Russian's in warfare. Modern technology has rendered their nuclear pile obsolete, and when our inspector's examined their stockpile when the USSR fell, we found their targeting packages were 1,000 miles off.......it isn't like the Russian Army can march to battle and win with tanks and artillery, as it did in World War II against Germany, with our assistance. Even an air battle would favor America, and again, our submarines would wipe that dawg nation off the face of the earth if need be..............
     
  17. Kiwi33

    Kiwi33 New Member

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    It is very good dream, united the Eurasia. It is possible that main there was not necessarily Putin, for example the Chinese leader or German, or maybe Franch or from Greece etc.

    LMAO too, eternal hegemony and rule of the USA over the whole world to which aspire the USA, it too - that pipe dream is right up there with the Islamic caliphate:wink:
     
  18. Ostap Bender

    Ostap Bender Well-Known Member

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    Not all Americans are bad, only a bloodthirsty gang around Hussein Obama & Co.
     
  19. Ostap Bender

    Ostap Bender Well-Known Member

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    Modern morons- 'policymakers' can do not it, only if Schroder, Bill Clinton and probably some other brainy western politicians will be back and re-set relationship with Russia.
     
  20. Ostap Bender

    Ostap Bender Well-Known Member

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    Not America, but criminal moron Hussein Obama.
     
  21. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    Oh dear. If you think for a second that Russia does not have missile launch detection technology and won't launch theirs (launch on warning) in an immediate response to your attack, you're either deluded or uneducated. If a nuclear exchange occurred you would be glowing as brightly as Russia. Fact.
    You are also kidding yourself if you honestly believe there can be any 'winners' after a thermonuclear exchange. Another fact.
     
  22. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Banned

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    The best way to describe the U.S foreign policy as a whole - lunatics run the asylum. I wouldn't bet on them not attacking Russia. They've been planning it for years. Hence movement of military hardware and troops closer and closer to the Russian borders.

    US officials consider nuclear strikes against Russia
    By Niles Williamson

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/06/05/ukra-j05.html

    There are quite a lot of psychopaths within the U.S establishment. We will need some divine intervention to stop them.
     
  23. cameron

    cameron New Member

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    No, it can't.

    The US has managed to buy the alienation of Cuba. It was a necessity, because the returning rejected dollars from China and Russia must circulate around the world and Cuba is the next country for this purpose.

    Also, the approval of Iran having nuclear power is a way to prevent this ally of Russia to intervene in the war in case NATO decides to attack Russia.

    This is a well studied strategy. Israel was imposed to keep its mouth shut, because Iran is needed to become impartial. If Iran continued to be close attached to Russia, then Iran could attack every ship (read oil tankers) in the Gulf and the war for NATO is over.

    For this reason -and no other- Iran has been overpassed as dangerous even when having nuclear power, regardless of the purpose of its use.

    The strategy that the US (the US is the head of NATO) has never changed.

    First is to isolate the target. In this case, Russia has been isolated. The allies of Russia -including Cuba- has been bought by all kind of negotiations. When Russia is subdued, then the next target will be Cuba, later Iran, later China, and so forth.

    Right now, North Korea is not even mentioned because the strategy is focused in Russia and China.

    On the other hand, if Iran, North Korea, China and Russia stick together and form a group against NATO, then the Western intentions will diminish and will expire.

    The idea is to isolate one by one and destroy them one by one.

    This is the way bullies do, forming a coalition and attack one individual target at the time.

    About other countries which may support Russia and China... lol... NATO has took care of them already, by creating chaos in those countries, just check the status of Iraq, Syria, Yemen... the current chaos in those countries has been manipulated by NATO... having them in this condition these countries won't provide any danger to NATO's intentions.

    This is not a case of good guys and bad guys, this is the case of history in play: Always there is greedy and ambition in humans, and the Western countries want to have it all. They want to dominate the world economy.

    At this moment, while the Asian countries have a great economy, the Western economies are the whole in bankruptcy. The Western nations are desperate for war. This is their only way to stop the resurging of Asia as the powerful economic force in the globe.

    We are witness of how the US government is accusing China of hacking Federal employees information... yeah... sure... right... as if the Chinese government is interested to use those social security numbers to buy LCD TV's online for their children... lol. In reality no one knows who did such breaking, but the intentions of our government is to plant the seed of hatred against China, because the US government wants a war against this country... not so because China wants a war against the US.

    Again, if a war comes, do not participate in it.

    The last Genève convention after WWII stated that an individual (read a soldier) is free to reject participating in a war if the war has been provoked by his country. This stipulation was made because lots of Nazi soldiers accused of war crimes excused themselves saying that they were "following orders", otherwise they should by under court martial.

    If the US troops were informed of this stipulation in the Bush administration, then they should reject going to Iraq -without being exposed to court martial- to fight a war against a country that never attacked the US. (Saddam Hussein rejecting dollars was not an attack against the US, because every country enjoys sovereignty to decide how to make trade with other countries).

    Before participating in a war, find out who is provoking it.

    The best way to come out of the hole in which our corrupt politicians have taken our economy is by production, working hard and sacrifice. A war is the dirties' way to make the US a country leader again.
     
  24. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    I keep on repeating that both the sides are playing the roles of the Cold War, no one will become aggressive [sure not using nuclear weapons!].

    I could add that if Putin is still enough tough and strong to be a "Cold War like" leader, I've got some doubts that Obama can stand such a situation. His luck is that he is going to leave the office quite soon.
     
  25. stanfan

    stanfan New Member Past Donor

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    The fact that you miss of this thread, is that there isn't ever going to be a thermonuclear exchange between American and Russia, and your posting that America is thinking or planning one, and about to collapse economically, bunk. Unless every nation in the world wants to unite against the American dollar, and convince itself to use somebody else's currency, the American national debt is not a major problem. Yes, it slows economic growth, and will be paid off by our grandchildren's grandchildren, but the Federal Reserve has maintained no corresponding inflationary spiral in the dollar's being produced. Also, it was suggested the dollar is useless, because it is not backed up by gold. We went off the gold standard and the silver standard before you were born. The American dollar is backed simply by government fiat. Nobody else has a currency that has more value than the dollar when it comes to trade throughout the world. What Putin is attempting to do with a bankrupt Greece, is get them to accept Russian currency, thinking it will begin a movement in the Balkan's that will change the world's monetary system, from dollars to rubles. Taking on a bankrupt partner, rather stupid economic policy, Greece hasn't acceded to the idea, and as I mentioned, the Chinese, whose entire capitalist trade depends on America, isn't going to suddenly become the bride of Putin, and abandon their biggest customer. You don't understand economic geopolitical moves, but of course, you are posting from one of Europe's other bankrupt former powerful nations, England.

    As for military might, America holds the upper hand on the Russian's in all instances. They will only do what Washington allows them to do. NATO was founded with the idea that 300,000 American troops and their numerous American military installations in Germany, would, in fact, be unable to stop a Soviet ground pound attack with tanks, artillery and infantry, unless the nuclear option was used. That is still NATO's basis. Any Soviet army moving against Western Europe, and it would be much more difficult since most of the old Warsaw Pact nations are now NATO members, aligned against Russian and Putin, means the Soviet army can't roll onto Poland, or Hungary or Czechoslovakia. You keep writing that America is considering war with Russia as a way to eliminate our national debt, which we can't pay off. We can pay it off in trade concessions, but we need a stronger leader in Washington than we have had over the past 20-years to do it. Any Russian army moving against NATO would be wiped out quickly. Putin's moves against former USSR states doesn't particularly bother the west. And, Putin, although misguided, certainly understand's America's superiority in air, naval and nuclear power. He won't move against us directly, and we certainly are not going to launch against him, but if we did so, there would be nothing left of Russia. Their nuclear threat would be neutralized by our stealth technology, and our submarines always are the last word in any international conflict when it comes to use of nukes. We win, even if we lose too. The President or Secretary of Defense no longer has to give an approval to launch from the subs, the Captain and the Executive Officer have that authority on their own.............
     

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