US fuming over Israeli criticism of Kerry.....

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by MMC, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Your criticism is still centered squarely on the Palestinians. Why are they firing rockets? They are still firing and Israel is still firing. Palestinian civilians are the ones being killed, not soldiers, not terrorists. Would this not upset you? Further, you seem to be under the impression that Israel would actually stop if the rockets stop. Israel makes aggressive incurcions into that country all the time, rockets or no rockets, and they aren't looking for terrorists or rockets when they do so.

    Would you meekly run away while someone invades your land and destroys your people and your way of life? These people already have nothing, and even that little is being taken away. The rockets are just a desperate attempt at retribution, and are being hyped to seem like some vast threat to Israel. They've also taken to howling on about Palestinian tunnels- as if they, as well, were a threat to Israel if they even existed in the number Israel claims and one wonders whether these tunnels are used for terrorism at all. In a land that becomes the target of hostile Israeli aggression at any time- usually in the middle of the night- they could be more like escape tunnels rather than terrorist roads to where...Israel? Ridiculous, especially when it's obvious that Israel will return even the slightest aggression exponentially and indiscriminately. It doesn't make sense, which is why it boggles me when people accept the "they are just crazy people who get their own people killed" line. I really can't believe grown people swallow that nonesense.

    Still...Hamas is not a terrorist organization. I'm sure it's done it's fair share of it like probably any nation you can point to, but it functions as the governing body of the Palestinians, or a quasi-government of sorts. Hamas is simply a dog-whistle word, like al-Qaeda or communism. An all-purpose slur that incriminates a whole people and excuses any crime.
     
  2. trout mask replica

    trout mask replica New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    12,320
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I accept that I was wrong to generalize in the way that I did. However, in terms of the Jews in Israel I'm not sure you have made a very persuasive case. Yes it's about power but the people of Israel voted the far right Likud into power and therefore cannot, in my view, absolve themselves of some responsibility. A few days ago 7,000 Israeli's took to the streets of Tel Aviv out of which only a tiny minority were Jewish. According to a survey published yesterday http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183441#.U9bOkqijL-k ninety-one percent (91%) of Israeli Jews support Israel's campaign against the people of Gaza and just 4.2% believe the operation is a "mistake."

    The survey also revealed that 85% of respondents would only support a cease-fire agreement if Israel eliminated every Hamas rocket and destroyed the full network of terror tunnels before agreeing to do so.

    Seventy-seven percent (77%) of Israeli Jews polled "very strongly support" Operation Protective Edge's airstrikes on Gaza; 17% "support" the airstrikes; and 4.5% had "weak support" for the airstrikes. Just 1.5% of respondents opposed the airstrikes on Gaza.

    Similarly, 50% "strongly support" the IDF's ground offensive in Gaza; 28% "support" the ground campaign and 14% have "weak support" for the campaign. By contrast, only 9% of respondents oppose sending ground troops into Gaza.

    Eighty-two percent (82%) of respondents "strongly disagree" with the statement "Israel launching Operation Protective Edge was a mistake"; 11% only "slightly disagree." Just 7% of respondents "agree" or "strongly agree" with that statement.

    As to the operation's success, 74% of respondents overall believe the IDF is "achieving its goals" in Gaza; of those, 23% "very strongly agree" and 51% "strongly agree." Just 22.5% of respondents were neutral on the issue and only 3% believe the operation is failing.

    Ninety-five percent (95%) of respondents said the operation has "made them proud of the IDF, the State of Israel, and the Jewish people," and only 2% disagreed with that statement.

    Netanyahu has a very high approval rating, according to the survey: 65% are "very satisfied" with Netanyahu's handling of the operation, 20% are "satisfied" with his leadership and only 10% are "not satisfied" with the Prime Minister.
     
  3. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOL, the PLO and Hamas have been trying to destroy Israel for years yet you blame the country that defends itself from aggression.
     
  4. Yetzerhara

    Yetzerhara Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,283
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Its not a handout. Its military transfers. Go look. When you and your anti Israeli parrots spew about aid to Israel at 3 billion go find out what its for. Its for military equipment.

    That military equipment is then re-developed by Israel, improved and sent back to the US who then turns around and sells modified versions of it to other nations.

    The 3 billion in military aid is not tax payers dollars. Its from the military industrial complex which employees 1 of 3 Americans directly and 1 of 4 indirectly.

    The 3 billion to Israel amounts to far more billions in tax benefits to the US from the citizens it employs who then pay the US taxes. Go find out for yourself instead of lamely spewing off the usual nonsense that its one way money with no benefit to the US.

    Go read what the Americans themselves say about it before you make such false comments:

    http://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

    Also when you point out that Israel gets 3 billion in aid how did you forget the aid its giving Saudi Arabia and the UAE at the same time and do tell me what the amount is to those countries. Do tell me how much military aid it gives pro Hamas Turkey. Do explain how much it gave each eyar to Egypt until Obama turned on the current regime in Egypt for throwing out the Muslim Brotherhood extremists.

    Go on finish what you started. How is it in your selective analysis with Israel you do not mention that the US sends as much military aid to these Arab countries as it does Israel and it gives all these countries militart assistance because its in its direct strategic interest to do so to protect oil sources in that area of the world.

    Go find out how much Israeli technology was exchanged back to the US which the US in turn then sold and made billions from.

    Your selective analysis is b.s.

    Its as false as Margot making the nonsensical comment that 60% of US foreign aid goes to Israel. Absolute and utter nonsense.

    Let's just fabricate and throw out the anti Israel b.s. as we go along.

    Here go read:

    http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2013/07/us-aid-to-afghanistan-iraq-israel
     
  5. Yetzerhara

    Yetzerhara Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,283
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In any discussion about the US and Israel anti Israelis post the myth that there is a one sided exchange of foreign aid to Israel.

    so let s again debunk the myth:


    1-the $3 billion aid must be used by Israel to purchase American military equipment. which provides real support for US high- tech defense jobs and contributes to maintaining the US industrial base and this in turn enables the US to stay ahead of competitors such as Russia, china, France, the UK, in the manufacturing of military munitions, aircraft, vehicles, missiles and virtually every defensive and offensive weapon in the US arsenal precisely because these weapons systems are jointly developed with Israeli expertise the Americans do not have;

    2- if one looks directly at the actual aid being given to Israel by the US they will notice the majority of it goes to the joint development research between the two for the missile defense systems called David’s Sling and Arrow 3 systems, which will benefit the US as much as Israel;

    3-the US gains from these efforts is then transfered to applications ton other US military and non-military projects which in turn create US employment;

    4- Israel’s strategic location on the Mediterranean, with access to the Red Sea and other vital international shipping and military lanes of commerce and traffic, is of critical important to the US in terms of oil routes and access and a port of call for US troops, ships, aircraft and intelligence operations-this is where this military aid to Israel goes-to patrol these waters;

    5-Israel has permitted the US to stockpile arms, fuel, munitions and other supplies on its soil to be accessed whenever America needs them in this region;

    6-the aid enables Israel to provide the US with real-time, minute-to-minute access to intelligence on Middle East political developments and terrorism as well as global terrorism with its expertise in surveillance of al- Qaida, Hizbullah, Iran, Hamas, etc.;

    7- the aid given to Israel in the past enabled it to destroy nuclear reactors at Osirak, Iraq, in 1981 and Syria’s nuclear facility at Deir-ez-Zor in 2007;

    If the US did not feel safer and made more secure because of the mutually dependent and beneficial relationship between it and Israel it would have stopped the military exchange long ago and lets call it what it is, its not foreign aid its military transfer technology that benefits both.

    In fact there is a growing belief in Israel now its time to cut back its ties with the US.

    The US under Obama has shown it is anti Israel. Kerry and Obama do not hide their bias. Israel still has close ties on a military level, and with Senators and Congressmen but it has all but ceased dealing with Kerry and Obama directly.

    Many in Israel feel its time Israel became less dependent on the US as long as Obama is close to the Muslim Brotherhood, Turkey, Oman, and has alienated not just Israel, but Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE with its decision to embrace Erdogan, Iran and other supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Israel benefits from a strong US presence that fights terrorism and stands up to tyrants like Putin or extremists like Erdogan.

    Obama has made it clear in his handling of Syria and Ukraine and his cozing up to Oman and Turkey and Kerry's absolutely one sided attacks on Israel, that Obama is anti Israeli and is carrying on a vendetta against Netanyahu at the expense of Israel security because of Netanyahu's decision to have backed Romney not Obama.

    Kerry has even managed to alienate the strongest US ally in Israel, Tzipi Levni who has in the last month or so openly challenged Kerry. Netanyahu brought her into his cabinet because she was pro American Democrat. Kerry chose to humiliate her and in essence call her a liar.

    Obama's decision to use Kerry as a mouthpiece to threaten Israel with an intifada and then a boycott parrots Erdogan.

    This same position caused Egypt and Saudi Arabia to cut military ties with the US and run into the hands of Putin and Israel? Its close now with China.

    The US in fact openly attacked and criticized Israel for developing a military relationship with China. It may be too late for that. Israel may already have decided unless a Republican replaces Obama it has to fend for itself and if it needs to forge new alliances with countries like China, Greece, so be it.

    The US and Israel have had a mutually beneficial relationship. If someone of you want to trot out the Israel is parasite myth go ahead. Its stale and its a crock.

    I for one think the US people do not as a majority agree with what Obama is doing in Eastern Europe or in the Middle East and will vote back in a Republican who will take a different approach to foreign policy.

    The point though is the US has lost its no.1 role thanks to Obama and countries like Israel who counted on it to stabilize the world against terrorism are now on their own.

    I for one think the growing dependence on the US is not a good thing. Israel's safety could be compromised. It certainly is with an idiot like Kerry trying to order Israel to unilaterally withdraw from the West Bank with no precondition of demilitarizing the area of having the PA recognize its right to live as a Jewish state.

    Kerry is a danger to Israel telling it to stop shooting unilaterally while Hamas digs tunnels, kidnaps its citizens and digs tunnels to enter Israel.

    Kerry is a prize jack ass to think Israel can do anything but fight for its life against an organization like Hamas dedicated to wiping it out.

    Kerry is a walking bafoon. He walked into the Middle East trying to tell not just Israel but Egypt what is good for them. The same fool chastizing Russia for meddling in the Ukraine has no problem meddling in the security of Egypt and Israel.

    The same person who accuses Putin of terror apologizes for Hamas and Erdogan and Oman. He is a complete and utter idiot reflecting the fool who is in office unable to grasp foreign affairs and its nuances.

    Obama belongs in Chicago at the state level. International politics is clearly beyond his scope of abilities.
     
  6. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You are right. Just like in America...or Britain...or Germany...or Japan...or wherever, there is usually a majority of those who either actively support, passivley support (complicit), or simply are indifferent but aware of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, or Israel's actions in general. Some are unaware, some may have been decieved by the "just cause" rhetoric, and there is usually a minorty that is willing to voice their opinions. Because of this, the charge of Israel can be laid at the feet of it's citizens the very same way many nations could hold US citizens to account for their support or comlicity in their governments crimes. Usually there is complicity when the crimes are generally beneficial to the aggressors and the citizens. When it is destructive- like drafts- then people get active quick. But that just shows that their resentment is more anchored in self-interest then empathy...

    But...still...one must make the distinction.

    What happened before there was a PLO or a Hamas?

    Most of this is delusion, and some of it twisted facts.
     
  7. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48

    Yeah,... They are all coming back to make sure we lose to islam this time...
     
  8. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    What's to understand here...?
    HAMAS said it today, that they will never accept a Jewish State.

    I hat to say that the Jews need start killing the entire GAZA community and chasing the people out of the area. Because they are too close and too brain washed to stop trying to exterminate Israel and the Jews living there.

    They are a cancer which will not stop the "You or Us" fight they have decided they want.
    So, give it to them now while Jews can still win.

    And then tell the PLo in the west Bank they are next if they do not stop the terrorism.
     
  9. Daily Bread

    Daily Bread New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2014
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Freeloaders ? They are the only reliable friends we have over there. You would be circling the wagons too if you were surrounded by the garbage that they have borders with. You would act differently ? Amazing that you can overcome the history that is involved in that area and criticize the only stable entity there. Egypt realized this and they made peace and became a stable and sensible country , whats the problem with the other tribes?
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Any US politician that has 50% approval rate these days is a super star !
     
  11. Daily Bread

    Daily Bread New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2014
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If he was Israel would cease to exist . We can only wish we had a leader that can step up and handle problems like Netanyahu is.
     
  12. vino909

    vino909 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    4,634
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Then God help us
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Which God ... The God of Clowns ? That is the only God I can think of that would entertain getting on this clown show.

    More on the clown show in my latest thread in Latest US and World news
    "White House accuses Russia of violating Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty"
     
  14. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    43,996
    Likes Received:
    1,706
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "...reliable friends..."?

    Your friends have, among other things:

    1. Conducted the Lavon Affair
    2. Deliberately murdered US citizens-the USS Liberty
    3. Spied on you-the Rosenbergs and Pollard (the former you hanged. The latter, jailed, lucky to have escaped death)
    4. Sold your military secrets to China
    5. Publicly bragged about what a soft touch you are

    Shall I go on? Israel has no friends any more, and the only reliable thing about the country is that they will continue to cynically fleece you of billions of your tax dollars, every year, whilst whining about how they are victimised. And you fall for it every time.
     
  15. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    14,697
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No.....my criticism is basically and mostly about Hamas.....the Cowardly Terrorists that can't man up even fighting guerilla warfare.

    Yeah, note they don't point out how many Hamas people have been killed......all due to the MS media and Lib slant they carry. Not to mention it isn't like Qatar's News Outlet will say Hamas.

    Well, we aren't talking about what I would do Personally. As if that was the case. Then Going back to my glory days and being a lot younger. I would take out Hamas who have been classified as terrorists since the 90s. Being Sicilian.....I would make them an Offer they Could not Refuse.....and then I would just take their (*)(*)(*)(*). Anytime I chose to do so.

    Also I would put an end to them running to any Cameras.

    When Hamas starts talking about laying down their fight.....then I might listen.
     
  16. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    14,697
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well its time Hamas start hearing people around the World.....calling for their Immediate Extermination. See how they like it.....Americans shouldn't be afraid to get up in front of the Press and Say it just like Hamas does.

    Then.....we should go after Qatar for Funding them. Including chasing Qatar's New Outlet.....Al Jazeera Right off the streets.....even using other media to drown them out with Reality.
     
  17. Rebelrouser

    Rebelrouser New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It seems like Israel is running the show, despite America kissing Israeli ass all the time, (sigh ) This saga reminds me of a German shepard and a (*)(*)(*)(*)su puppy, the smaller dog is always in control, want to end all this crap, America should just leave its 51st state to defend itself without our interference. Then we could spend more cash on our own folks at the VA. I have never seen so much incompetence from a country.
     
  18. Inviolate

    Inviolate Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Absolutely. Islam must be defeated and in order for that to be the case they have to beg for peace and they must admit that they are defeated.
     
  19. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hahahaha.. I can't believe that you wrote such a ridiculous thing.
     
  20. Inviolate

    Inviolate Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Their war with Nazi Germany was a separate action and independent from our own. Our interests temporarily co-incided then they diverged sharply. People with some knowledge of history knows this.
     
  21. Inviolate

    Inviolate Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ridiculous? I don't think so Tim. Islam is our ideological and political enemy and though they suffer setbacks they are not defeated. We should have taken advantage in Afghanistan and laid waste to these losers with utter effort to eradicate them in what ever cave they dwelled in. And then set up permanent bases on the borders of Iran as a possible launch offs in case they decided to 'break bad'. And we should have done the same thing in Iraq.

    I do not suffer the illusion of not knowing Islam is our enemy, they have said so, they have demonstrated it repeatedly. I am not sure where the disconnect is, but it is not with me or those who share my reality based perceptions.
     
  22. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    12,833
    Likes Received:
    5,963
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think that everyone should mind their own business and let Israel finish killing those murdering terrorist bastards. I mean for gosh sakes, it needs to be settled, not prolonged.
     
  23. Daily Bread

    Daily Bread New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2014
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    All a matter of how you choose to analyze .
    Oh - you left out one ! They didn't hijack planes and attack us on 9-11 . But I'm sure you'll say that was a figment of our imagination.

    Trying hard to keep it civil
    Your Daily Bread
     
  24. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You don't know Islam or any Muslims or any Arab country..
     
  25. trout mask replica

    trout mask replica New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    12,320
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ah, yes the children and women included. So name these 'terrorists' please will you?
     

Share This Page