US Holocaust museum denounces AOC’s ‘concentration camp’ remarks

Discussion in 'United States' started by alexa, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    cont'd
    https://nypost.com/2019/06/24/us-ho...utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter

    I do not find this correct. There were concentration camps prior to WW2 and I am pretty sure there have been since. I also thought 'concentration' camps were not the same as 'death camps' and of course Jews were by no means the only people held in them.

    I do not believe people can only use the words concentration camps when referring to the holocaust. To suggest so would suggest no one else is or ever has been held in them which simply is not true.

    On another level I suspect that this is simply another attempt to try and label someone who has expressed concern for the Palestinians as 'antisemetic'. Politicians and democracy in the UK has been brought to its knees with this tactic being used successfully in the UK. In an Aljazeera documentary which passed all the complaints laid against it, we found that out of the Israeli Embassy in the UK worked a man who was creating and directing all our Friends of Israel groups and who was trying to get dirt on a Member of Parliament, a Tory one as it happened because he was concerned about Palestinian Rights. Everyone has something they would like to hide was how he said this would be accomplished.

    So I guess the question is two fold. Do you believe that concentration camps can only be used in connection with the Holocaust? Do you recognised the Demoractic necessity to allow free discussion of every country including Israel and that doing that is not a symptom of 'antisemitism'?
     
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  2. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  3. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Concentration camps is apropos. AOC is trying to force the government under tyrant Trump to protect, not prosecute, those innocent children. Now, we can debate whether the parents have violated the law and whether they should be punished in some way for doing so. However, innocent children have nothing to do with the sins of their fathers and mothers. They must be protected. These camps are endangering them (and there have been casualties to prove it) and that is something no rational thinking adult can or should tolerate.
     
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  4. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    The other issue is whether AOC is anti-Semitic. As she has pointed out and I have previously proven on this forum, she is descended of Sephardic Jews and her family name appears on the Inquisition's roster of Jewish victims: https://www.sephardim.co/c-sephardic-surnames/

    Therefore, to suggest that she hates Jews as some deluded right wingers believe is a total absurdity.
     
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  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I didn't know that. thanks.
     
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  6. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    The vast majority of the people known as Puerto Ricans are descended of the Sephardic Jews exiled from Spain in 1492. If you want to know what Jews looked like at the time of Jesus or David or Solomon, they resembled what PR's look like today. Fact.
     
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  7. The Centrist

    The Centrist Well-Known Member

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    I understand where the Holocaust museum is coming from. There is an argument to be made that her comments were out of line and over the top. The question becomes does Rep Cortez have the right to make such a comparison. She certainly does, but in turn the museum also has the same right to call her out on it.
     
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  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't agree. My main concern is that I have seen in the US that Senators who are critical are getting this antisemitism rap tried on them. This has been going on in the UK since it became apparently Corbyn was likely to win the Labour Leadership and has resulted in slurs instead of debate in Parliament, while having no basis in reality.
    https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/check-evidence/

    The actual focus desire for these accusations comes not from any concern about antisemitism, in the UK as in almost every where else most antisemitism and other racism comes from the far right but has come from the deliberate intent to stop discussion of Israel - to make any criticism of Israel called antisemitism. This has resulted in groups like the Palestinian Solidarity Movement not being able even to get somewhere to hold meetings as everyone is terrified they will be called antisemites for it. It is as the report above I have linked to above says of McCarthyite proportions and then some. It has further resulted in this tactic being used in other ways to stop politicians having the right to state their view without personal attacks. For instance one man who knows a lot about Venezuela and whose position is different from the Government and the US Government started being told things like he was a dishonour to Parliament and should be ashamed of entering. These are definite attacks on free speech and the right of the opposition to do its job. It seemingly now being believed that if the opposition does not agree with the Government and does its job and opposes it, is in some way unpatriotic - that is what Corbyn was accused of being for agreeing with the position that a man who worked with Obama had on Iran. My concern is given the success in the UK this is what is now being tried in the US.
     
  9. The Centrist

    The Centrist Well-Known Member

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    Ok, what part of my comment do you disagree with. Not being a smart ass, just asking which part.
     
  10. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't agree with your believing that the holocaust museum had as much right to its view that she was involved in
    or a bit further
    link OP...
    I am unaware of her actually doing this so unless there is evidence of her doing this their view is not accurate so does not hold viability.

    so while people might have the right to say whatever they want, I do not think this was appropriate. I don't believe she was doing that. That is why I believe the critique of her was for an ulterior motive and given her expressed concern for the Palestinians and how other people in the States and most certainly in the UK have been treated, I would suspect that is the motive for the attack not any belief that she was suggesting the situation of the children was the same as the holocaust.
     
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  11. The Centrist

    The Centrist Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. We can agree to disagree here.
     
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  12. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    Aoc is a moron and her idiotic claim demonstrates her failure to comprehend reality. Those who seek to defend her obvious anti semitic comparison are just as guilty
     
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  13. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Holding people in squalid conditions with no normal necessity amenities like soap,shampoo,toothpaste and proper food and bedding is exactly like being in a concentration camp.
     
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  14. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    And despite the fact we are two and a half years into his administration Dirty Donald says Obama did it???
     
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  15. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Unlike the emotional responses made by forum right wingers, you realize that she said these were concentration camps, nothing else. She clearly said children were forced into inhumane conditions, not that they were being vaporized en masse in ovens or exterminated as happened in the Holocaust.
     
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  16. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Nisei concentration camps during World War II:


    https://tinyurl.com/y39k58hr



    [​IMG]




    These concentration camps in which innocents were imprisoned under inhumane conditions were referred to as "internment" or "relocation" camps by the government. History considers them concentration camps. This is what AOC was referring to. Anyone who thinks she was equating the present situation with Hitler's death camps is under a delusion.
     
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  17. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    A CBC report from last night on conditions in the US detention camp near El Paso. Kids neglected, lack food, water and proper sanitation. Kids in filthy clothing stained with feces and mucous. Young kids looking after the care of even younger kids who have been separated from their parents.

    Just deplorable conditions but of course to the right, AOC is a bimbo for pointing it out:

    "A two-year-old boy locked in detention in Texas wants to be held all the time. A few girls, ages 10 to 15, say they've been doing their best to feed and soothe the clingy toddler who was handed to them by a guard days ago. Lawyers warn that kids are taking care of kids, and there's inadequate food, water and sanitation for the 250 infants, children and teens at the Border Patrol station.

    The bleak portrait emerged Thursday after a legal team interviewed 60 children at the facility near El Paso that has become the latest place where attorneys say young migrants are describing neglect and mistreatment at the hands of the U.S. government.

    Data obtained by The Associated Press showed that on Wednesday there were three infants in the station, all with their teen mothers, along with a one-year-old, two two-year-olds and a three-year-old. There are dozens more under 12. Fifteen have the flu, and 10 more are quarantined.

    Three girls told attorneys they were trying to take care of the two-year-old boy, who had wet his pants and had no diaper and was wearing a mucus-smeared shirt when the legal team encountered him.

    A Border Patrol agent came in our room with a two-year-old boy and asked us, 'Who wants to take care of this little boy?' Another girl said she would take care of him, but she lost interest after a few hours, and so I started taking care of him yesterday," one of the girls said in an interview with attorneys.

    Law professor Warren Binford, who is helping interview the children, said she could not learn anything about the toddler — not even where he's from or who his family is. He is not speaking.

    Binford described that during interviews with children in a conference room at the facility, "little kids are so tired they have been falling asleep on chairs and at the conference table."

    She said an eight-year-old taking care of a very small four-year-old with matted hair couldn't convince the little one to take a showe
    r.

    "In my 22 years of doing visits with children in detention, I have never heard of this level of inhumanity," said Holly Cooper, who co-directs University of California, Davis's Immigration Law Clinic and represents detained youth."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/texas-el-paso-migrant-children-neglect-1.5185329

    What the heck is wrong with this? Liz Cheney on human rights? Give me a break:

     
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  18. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, the conditions these children are being kept under suggests an inhumane society really up for torturing kids because that appears to be what the treatment of them is. They want people to say, don't take your kids to the US, they torture them and I would guess that really is the intent. It is seriously worrying where this is going and thank goodness there are some people who will speak up against it regardless of current media responses and the current atmosphere of lack of humanity which it would seem must be condoning this and allowing it to continue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  19. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those kid would be so much better taken care off in their own countries...
     
  20. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are only supposed to be in CBP custody for a very short time before HHS houses them. HHS is overloaded so it now backs up being able to take them. Democrats refuse to fund this crisis even though they have been begged to. Democrats refuse to do anything to stop the hordes crossing the border illegally, in one case 1,000 at one border point were stopped.

    So democrats are torturing kids for political gain.
     
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  21. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not American and do not have time at the moment to look up the things you have said.

    What I do know is that it is the Trump Regime who are keeping the children like this so it seems to me they are responsible. Whoever is doing it, it is a reprehensible way for the richest country in the world to keep children and I do not accept it was only supposed to be a few days - a few days can be exceedingly damaging to a child and then ....well we have do because of the dems. No excuse. If you are the people doing this you are to blame.

    I am also as sure as I can be that there is not a massive issue with refugees at the moment so that would suggest there should not be a problem in housing them well with their parents, giving them decent food and the necessities for good hygiene though I know Trump believes that is a good vote earner so god knows what will happen to these kids. I also understand that not only are people fleeing violence which I understand the US has had a hand in but that they are also suffering from food shortages due to climate emergency. You are going to get a lot more refugees in the future if you do not start to deal with reality and recognise that.

    I understand you are required by law to provide safe and sanitary conditions.

    Is this what you are talking about

    https://act.democracyforamerica.com/sign/no-border-funding-letter/?t=7&refcode=g-dhdeliver0210.d-20190210.m-15935.s-53062&akid=15935.2511356.YBlDj2

    I was kind of guessing it might be something like that - that is denying funding for the way the children are being kept, demanding they be treated in a humanitarian way. Is that the problem?

    Can someone answer more on the situation of the Democrats being blamed for this?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  22. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is terrible! Better send them home then...
     
  23. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Per my understanding of history, the idea of a concentration camp (or at least the term) was derived by the British and British General Kichener during the British second war with the Boers, now termed the Second Anglo Boer War. The British concentration camps implemented during this war were not designed as death camps per se, but their operation resulted in de facto death camps. Fifty percent of Boer children incarcerated in these camps died from starvation, exposure, and disease.

    Certainly to compare the US incarceration of illegals either to the British or later German concentration camps displays an ignorance of history. Also, people claiming that only Jews were ever put in concentration camps display ignorance, but probably faux ignorance designed to get votes, influence US policy towards Israel, and the like.

    Technically speaking the US camps set up for internment of Japanese citizens during WWII were concentration camps. About 117,000 people were interned and about 1800 died from disease. About 180 of these people killed died from the deadly disease TB, likely as a resulted of being in camps.

    As a historical note, I have to mention that in the second Boer war the death count was implemented as a strategic policy. So the British policy in this war foreshadowed the strategic hamlet concept and the body count of the Vietnam war. Not that strategic hamlets were intended to be inhumane, but the objective was the same as the British concentration camps. To concentrate women, children, and old people who supported an insurgency and separate them from family member combatants.

    Without a historical context, this thread is simply a partisan political discussion.

    Now for the 2nd time today I will venture a little off topic on a post. Does anyone believe the Holocaust museum was not put in the US to influence our policy towards Israel? WHY WAS THIS MUSEUM NOT PUT IN GERMANY?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  24. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    There have been concentration camps all over the globe in the past well over a 100 years. Just silly Jews and their supporters claim this only is able to Jews and their ethnicity in WWII. It's right up there of being called an antisemite just because you condemn Jews ethnically cleansing Arabs.
     
  25. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    As a foreigner you may be ignorant of our budget process and the need to spend money based on line item budget allocation. According to the US liberal news media (and I believe they are right based on many years of preparing Budget Exhibits for a Federal program) this is why (for example) Trump cannot spend money by US law for a wall that was allocated for something other than a wall.

    Now as a concerned citizen of the world, I suggest you set up a gofundme account (or similar) for these children you are so concerned about and dig deep into you own pocket to provide these people with economic assistance. As a US taxpayer I am providing them with basic food and shelter, but maybe these people have commissary accounts you can donate to. Also lobby your government to provide transportation for these people to seek "asylum" in your country.

    Well I have to add, please keep the [expletive] out of our politics.
     

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