US military cites rising risk of Chinese move against Taiwan

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Durandal, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And how long do Communists take to change?
     
  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Yes and my point is that makes no sense since China didn't start the one child policy to discriminate against Han and they sure didn't end it because of calls of Han being discriminated against. I don't get why you are trying to impose some sort of western context about "discrimination" on this situation.
     
  3. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    commy change quite a bit since mao, they are more of state capitalism. if they dont they will have another revolt on their hand. they took ROC lesson to heart, and understand the importance of economy and better living condition. Thats the major reason why most chinese are tolerate to ccp for now.

    if you want know how corrupt KMT back in 50s here is the video

     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  4. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    from Han view its unfair. they allow minority to more kids, so my point is Han didn't discriminate the minority grp, rather the minority benefit more compare to han. they end the 1 child policy cause as their economy raise they run into same situation as japan.
     
  5. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    and if NK start using nuke, any war with china has potential to turn in to WWIII. what happen if china start send troop into SK like they did in 50s. china-taiwan war can potentially escalate into wwiii.
     
  6. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Adding to post #169, in which I dwell on the impracticality, & extreme unlikeliness, of a war with China, I will point out something else to you. IF fear of U.S. MILITARY involvement is playing an inhibitory role in both these situations-- which you seem to believe is the case, though I tend to doubt, in both instances (I think China is more concerned with its appearance before the rest of the world, & the business repercussions this might have, as for its 5G Communications services, in Europe; Russia's concerns are only Putin's concerns, which I see as possible personal financial sanctions, specifically by the U.S.)-- then imagine the following scenario.

    As you hypothesize, let us imagine that both China & Russia are watching each other's situation. Let's speculate China acting 1st, since they headline your thread. IF the U.S. were to fully commit to whatever it took, to keep Taiwan free, i.e., war with China, then that would remove any of Putin's
    hesitancy
    since, despite the scenarios being spun by @Dayton3 , the concept of us simultaneously engaging China & Russia, in wars on the very borders of both those nations (w/ not only the U.S. still dealing with the pandemic, but most of our allies, in Europe, lagging behind us in their anti-Covid efforts), Putin would rightly see as a ludicrous idea. So, in your stated views, the U.S. jumping whole-heartedly to Taiwan's defense, would ENCOURAGE Russian agression in Ukraine; whereas our NOT diving in with both feet, to the Chinese conflict, would allow us to retain some degree of disincentive, being felt by Russia.

    Hey, that's just taking YOUR positions, putting them into play, and seeing the logical results.
     
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  7. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Nations often get involved in wars they have no interest in fighting.
     
  8. Same Issues

    Same Issues Well-Known Member

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    That is a lot of speculation on the outcome of said conflict, and complete control of another nations economy is in a way conquering them. Although you would not be able to control the Chinese economy without boots on the ground and complete support from the world while you crash economies around the world at the same time.
    - Also, you are assuming they would just fold, not use tactical nuclear weapons if you wipe out their entire navy, and that they would inflict little to no damage to our own forces as you would have to blockade China to control ONLY their maritime economy.
     
  9. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wouldn't watch it. Fifty years ago we had Mao - enuf said. How many did he kill?
    Eighty million?
    Today Taiwan is a liberal democracy, China is going backwards.
     
  10. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One point - if America and China go to full 'nuclear exchange' that is not technically another
    world war. There's been only one world war and that happened in 1941 when Japan attacked
    Asia/America - thus extending the conflict from Europe to Russia to Africa to Asia/Pacfic.
     
  11. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    While that has, historically, been true, neither of these is a case of there being a, "slippery slope." They are fights right on the doorsteps of two of the world's short top-shelf, military powers. One could not help but go into either of these conflicts with their own forces, without realizing the serious commitment that was being made. These are open man-holes, surrounded by wooden blockades & encircled with yellow tape, with dark smoke billowing out of them.

    Nor are there complicated levels of alliances to obscure the basic proposition of either: fighting China to save Taiwan, or fighting Russia for the benefit of Ukraine. Taiwan is a non-starter, in my mind. Even if we send equipment to them, do you expect China would make a general declaration of war against the U.S., compelling us to fight?

    Ukraine has a bit more potential for slowly evolving into a larger conflict, but I doubt that NATO nations would be willing to enter the fray with their own troops, at least for the time being, while fighting is contained to the eastern part of that country.
     
  12. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    a war in asia with china involved, you never what kind escalation gonna be, russia/iran/nk all can take advantage of the situation.
     
  13. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    @Dayton3 , @Durandal

    (Cont'd from previous post):
    At most, NATO forces would be sent into Ukraine to dissuade Putin from moving further west, & would only engage Russian troops who did trespass beyond the two regions in dispute.
     
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  14. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    lol so you support taiwan, yet want to be ignorant about taiwan history, and dont even want to learn it. i doubt taiwaness want your support if you are ignorant about their history.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  15. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am sure many Taiwanese would appreciate you seeing them as a member of a rare
    club of democratic nations. Once all nations were dictatorial - today a few have become
    liberal and democratic.
     
  16. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding China and tactical nuclear weapons. From the sources I've read, China has very few tactical nuclear weapons. Certainly not enough to fight a war with. Russia has plenty but that is another argument.

    In regards to our NATO allies. They would not be able to avoid fighting alongside the U.S. against Russia. Any major fighting in Eastern Europe would inevitably involve them no matter their opinions on the matter.
     
  17. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    sure, says the one that dont even watch video about taiwan history, and claim he care about taiwan ;)
     
  18. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    china is increase its stockpile of nuke, they had nuke since 60s, its easy for them to make more, they have the fissile material to make thousands They see nuke as more waste $$$ weapon for now, just sitting there, but that could easily change in the near feature. as for russia, in worse case fighting russia and china on both front, potentially iran and NK as well, yea pretty sure draft is needed. both russia/china have much larger resource/landmass compare to german/japan in wwii. there is just no way to invade either those countries via land. even air strike deep into their territory is impossible given their integrated air defense and land mass. china also have 4000+ conventional ballistic missile that can reach to japan all the way to guam. if NK and China involve in korea peninsula, we already know how 50s wars goes, and thats when china was weak had no airforce/navy.
     
  19. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    People dismiss the idea that a draft would be supported and popular in the United States.

    Any Chinese and/or Russian attack would kill thousands of American civilians in Taiwan, South Korea, and Eastern Europe. I would strongly suggest that the sudden deaths of thousands of American civilians would be a strong motivator for young Americans to join the military.
     
  20. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    if china invade taiwan, there would be signs(massive troop movement/buildup near taiwan etc), US have plenty time to evacuate american citizen from the region, we done it before. btw there only few hundreds americans in taiwan, there are more american living in china than in taiwan. also china wont attack SK/japan in the first place, but if US get involved, and things could escalated, war might shift from localized taiwan war to korean peninsula war. and if Russia take advantage due to US been busy in asia, since russia/china are bro now, well then we got ourself WWIII. iran might also do something, they clearly ally themself with china now. In wwii, we basically invade entire german for them to surrender, i doubt we have the means to invade entire china/russia. Nuke is out of options, both them have nuke for 2nd strike. so likely in the end, either nuclear war or some kind truce where both side lost millions ppl. in the korean war allies force lose over 130k, remember thats when china just established , just coming out from wwii and civil war, didn't have an airforce/missile tech/navy, they were basically arm with bolt action rifle and some artillery, and they fight allies force made up dozens countries to stalemate.
     
  21. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, because seeing Taiwan's dark past is as relevant was watching something on Italy
    and Germany in the 1930's.
     
  22. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    sure excuse for lazy ppl who dont want to understand the taiwan history.
     
  23. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    How is Taiwan's history relevant to whether or not most of its people want to live under control of mainland China?
     
  24. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    No, not from a Han point of view, but from a western view of what we think the Han are thinking, without any cultural references other than our own.

    They are not like us.
     
  25. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you saying you diminish a nation because of its past? What some politician or political
    party did says nothing about the aspirations of that nation - and that nation aspires to be a
    liberal democratic nation steering its own course. Three cheers to them.
    America should recognize Taiwan and immediately establish a military presence there. The
    fear of offending China is no longer an issue - China offends everyone.
     
    Dayton3 likes this.

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