Venezuela is Falling Apart - Socialism's effects

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by DOconTEX, May 17, 2016.

  1. DOconTEX

    DOconTEX Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, Chavez went all in for wealth distribution. Went socialist. Predictably, it turned out horribly for ordinary Venezuelans.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/05/venezuela-is-falling-apart/481755/

    As usual in a big government "share the wealth" environment, government officials and the connected are doing fine. Ordinary citizens can't get by the day. Sometimes the entire day is spent trying to find food. http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2016/05/the-empty-cupboards-of-venezuelas-families/482949/

    Healthcare is "free" and "universal" but the government can't provide the necessary tools and supplies necessary to treat patients, so babies die for want of care. State businesses are filled with cronies and incompetent and a country rich in resources can't provide power to its citizens.

    So, come on socialism fans. Tell us about this latest in a long line of failures of the concept how it just wasn't done right this time. NEXT time, it'll be done right. Why, lets just try it here in the US. THEN we'll get it right and everyone will have his own personal unicorn.
     
  2. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    Socialism doesn't spring up from nothing, it is born from successful Capitalist countries who have a large number of greedy poor envious of what the rich have and they don't. Usually its young people like in China who don't want to put forth the effort to gain what their parents have attained over a few decades of hard work. Cushy comfort breeds lazy spoiled brats.
    https://youtu.be/7dAmroKyzGY
     
  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Sixteen years after Hugo Chavez came to power, the oligarchy still owns a large part of the land, the banks and the most profitable industries in Venezuela.
     
  4. DOconTEX

    DOconTEX Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But this is what happens in all socialist states. The connected, the bureaucrats will have or retain wealth. The ordinary people suffer. Under capitalism the opportunity exists to become rich and become powerful. Under socialism only the powerful become rich.

    Under socialism there is no incentive to strive or improve as the fruits of your labors will be stolen by the government for re-distribution. Wealth is not created, it is only re-distributed and "Eventually you run out of other people's money".
     
  5. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Socialism is a dead end. It leads to poverty, misery, and (in the end) a collapse.
     
  6. Darkbane

    Darkbane Banned

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    well as much as I love the collapse of a socialist country so I can scream "I told you so" and point fingers... we need to take this one with a grain of salt... the reason why this country is collapsing as much as it is, is a result of their dependence as a nation on oil exports, and not purely because of socialism... if they had any other form of government, it would still be collapsing because of the immense amount of dependence on oil exports to fund things... a better and more fair comparison would be on a socialist country that has a much more broad and far less dependence on a single resource of income... I mean you wouldn't do a good job at standing up if I kicked one of your legs out from under you, no matter what economic or government beliefs you have, you'd likely fall flat on your face... but if you had 8 legs and I kicked one out from under you, odds are you'd turn around and deliver 7 kicks to my face and I would be the one looking up at you from the ground...

    so to be fair and honest, this has less to do with socialism, and more to do with such a great dependence on oil exports to fund your government... diversity is power... same reason why detroit failed as a city, not because it was socialism, but because it was dependent on a single industry and when they collapsed, it collapsed too... I could provide countless example from all styles, so like I said, to be fair, this wasn't a collapse as a result of socialism, its a collapse from all your eggs in one basket...
     
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  7. longknife

    longknife New Member

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  8. Alien Traveler

    Alien Traveler New Member

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    Not really. Even at a peak of oil prices Chavez did not put any money aside, for future needs. Most of his rule he run country with deficit - to promote socialism. Compare to other countries hugely dependent on oil - Saudi Arabia and Russia. They do have problems, but they are not falling apart (and Russia survives not just low oil prices but and sanctions too). Idiocy of Chavez and Maduro is the main thing. It was proved once and again that Marxism does not work. Why to prove it once more?
     
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  9. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Capriles banned from public office for 15 years...
    [​IMG]
    Venezuela bans key opposition leader
    Sunday, April 9, 2017 -- Venezuelan authorities on Friday banned a top opposition leader from public office for 15 years, the latest move in an increasingly tense power struggle in the crisis-hit country.
     
  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    It turned out exceptionally well.
    http://cepr.net/blogs/the-americas-...ocial-performance-under-hugo-chavez-in-graphs

    From malnutrition, to education, to income/poverty, and inflation.
    The guy is dead now. Bit weird to blame him since he's been dead for 4 years.


    As an example the right wing government caused that almost 8 percent of the children did not have enough food in Venezuela, in a country that should be incredible rich due to the amount of oil they got. Chavez turned that into a bit over 2%. We're talking about 1 man being responsible for feeding millions and millions of children, where the right wing clique would let them to rot in their misery.

    Just mindblowing how people can oppose what Chavez did.
     
  11. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Saudi Arabia and Russia do not have the problems Chavez had. Chavez took over from a bunch of extreme right wingers, who never minded a fast amount of people. Something like 50% was living under the poverty line before Chavez took over. That comes with not enough food to eat, to no healthcare what so ever. The country was in a full state of emergency for the around 15 million out of the 30 million who live there. That is a heck of a lot of people who needed food, jobs and healthcare... and that aint free one bit. So there were no funds to put aside.
     
  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Western Europe thrives on it. So what do you mean it's dead?
     
  13. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They've done ok with the U.S. providing for their national defense, which frees up their money for social programs, museums, etc.

    But they still suffer from high unemployment rates. All is not well in Europe.
     
  14. Ninian

    Ninian Banned

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    I am not sure, what incompetence and corruption of government has to deal with socialism, but... Keep throwing poop at each other, have fun.
     
  15. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Germans unemployment rate is below 4%.

    Things are a lot better managed in Western Europe compared to the US, as in affordable healthcare, pensions, unemployment securities etc. compared to the US where you just get kicked to the curb with your children, not a clue how to pay a dentist let alone how you pay for things when you're too old to work. That the US uses foodstamps, as if your living in a besieged country where food is scarce,... the embarrassment is so normal. Not to mention the astronomically high % of people behind bars. You might as well live in Africa with UN food aid.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
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  16. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You have a sick, twisted view of America. The evidence is overwhelming that you're wrong, but I'm not going to waste my time on you. Good luck with your fantasies.
     
  17. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Dude. The US isn't a lefty healthcare, unemployment security, pension heaven,...you need to be in western Europe for that kind of thing. While something like 10% of the country relies on foodstamps. And the US is nr 1 -f* yeah- when it's about imprisoning people.

    While it's you who is wrong... with your high unemployment.
    Germany does fine. Or actually.. make that excellent.
     

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