Venezuelan military to escort Iranian oil tankers

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Giftedone, May 20, 2020.

  1. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Under any handle you use, Sobo, you sound the same:)
     
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  2. ErikH

    ErikH Banned

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    Of course im the same. Doesnt change nything of what i said.

    How would you like german related groups active in Iran, demonstrating about getting land back that was given to poland and plan terror attacks on russian embassy in Tehran as revenge for Königsberg?

    Would you like that?
     
  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I would first make sure the Russians aren't spinning tales and would want to makes my country isn't being pushed to tell those tales. If I was convinced that wasn't the case, I would of course want to see anyone from that 'german related group' kicked out.

    Now, that is your version of what facts. I have heard other versions too. Ones that make more sense to me. Ultimately, whatever the facts, Germany is doing what others have been pushing it to do for a while now. And things are where they are.
     
  4. ErikH

    ErikH Banned

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    Well as a german, i dont want foreign groups doing **** in my country. Quite understandable, right?

    **** palestine, thats none of our business.
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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  6. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When I said sitting idle, I meant the Greek tankers are sitting idle. It's amazing that Washington can exert such economic pressure on the world, but that's not going to last - and it's worrisome for us.

    The audio of the captain of the ship admitting that he was in Venezuelan waters was presented in court - but look, if you want to believe the fairytales told by your newspaper, then do so. I wouldn't want to upset you with reality.

    Sobo be careful, what you're saying about Iran and Venezuela might be Germany in the near future. Take a good look at the riots going on in the US, because they're not going away. People are out of work, and Soros keeps paying them to continue rioting for his new world order. We are heading for a world wide depression, and if you want to know what that means, then read up on Germany and how it fared in 1929.

    In the meantime the EU is breaking up, and there will be a war in the Eastern Mediterranean soon - thanks to Erdogan. It will be the start of WWIII, and I pity any nation that gets involved. Things do not look rosy for the Western world.
     
  7. ErikH

    ErikH Banned

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    Fact is, a cruise ship sunk the venezueal war ship. lol

    As for the rest, Germany is doing great so far we have enormous financial rescoruces thanks to good austerity in the past. We stay out of conflicts and watch whats going on.
     
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anything is sitting idle despite the pressures you allude to -- and the false reports in 2 US media outlets (FOX and WSJ) quoting overexcited anonymous US officials (reports and claims which you won't find being repeated again). At least 2 of the tankers have finished unloading their fuel and are now heading back to Iran. The other 2 are on the same path, while the fifth tanker is not far behind.

    Now, if the tankers at issue were indeed owned by any Greek firms, then I am sure the pressure would work. But they aren't. They are owned by Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lanes (IRSL).

    To be sure, not long ago, when sanctions had been lifted following the JCPOA and IRISL could place foreign orders for new tankers, there was actually some concern in Iran that IRISL (despite being a government owned shipping company in Iran), was itself acting any dubious manner and with some questionable links itself. I haven't kept up with the latest on IRISL and how it has been acting and behaving lately, but I do know that some shipyards in Iran which had begun building tankers (including one for Venezuela which they finished but Venezuela wasn't able to pay) and companies associated with them were upset that IRISL was placing orders with foreign shipyards (this time Korean ones, while previously ones in Greece) for its tankers.
    https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2019/02/25/iran-builds-a-new-tanker-at-sadra/
    Iran Builds A New Tanker at Sadra
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  9. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When a ship enters the waters of another nation, and they are asked to be boarded and searched, they are obligated to do so. The owners of the cruise ship are libel for the damages to the Venezuelan coast guard ship. What you're saying is that people can ignore the law whenever and wherever they want. I thought you were a policeman?
     
  10. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You keep confusing the issue. I was not talking about the 5 Iranian tankers that delivered the oil to Venezuela. I was talking about privately owned Greek tankers that are not under the Iranian flag, and are sitting idle because of the oil situation. The US threatened them through their insurance companies and banks not to deliver any Iranian oil to Venezuela.

    They are not the only ones threatened. Washington also threatened China and Russia, that's why they're not able to help.
     
  11. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I thought you were referring to the reports from FOX and WSJ you had mentioned previously. My bad.

    But the reason Russia and China aren't helping out Venezuela isn't just what you mention. In fact, both countries have stopped doing much (besides on the diplomatic front) to help Venezuela when it needs their help the most, basically appeasing US pressures. China stopped offering loans to Venezuela and has rejected their appeals in that regard. The Russians have not only stopped providing Venezuela with fuel, but I don't see them providing Venezuela with much else.

    This is very similar to the first year of the Syrian civil war, when Russia and China used their veto at the UN to blunt some of the measures against Assad, but otherwise did nothing to help him. The Russians, in fact, would actively participate in many 'conferences' and other "UN" meetings led by powers who wanted to discuss the future of Syria without Assad, always appearing open to the suggestion being offered in those meetings. It was mainly Iran in those days that came to help Assad in more practical terms, defeating the mantra that "Assad must go" and the 'euphoria' of those who were insisting that it wasn't a question of whether, but when, Assad's regime would fall (with the predictions ranging from days or weeks to a few months).

    I know this is not a narrative you like to hear, but it is the truth. The same way that Sobo used to be very proud of Germany putting up a temporary resistance to US bullying on some issues, only to then try to cover up Germany completely giving into the bullying by repeating allegations (unfounded as far as I can tell) that may sound convincing to him to cover up the appeasement but can't hide it.

    The power of the US to twist arms through its economic muscle is absolutely a fact. The other fact is that anyone who wants to change that needs to take some heat and pay the short term costs for the long term gains. If Russia and China (and others) were determined enough, they could do wonders in this regard. Certainly, more than Iran can on its own! But why should political leaders who are living comfortable and cushy lives, able to travel around the globe and be shown respect (even if finding themselves occasionally slandered or accused and attacked by the usual suspects) risk all that for some nebulous 'long term' benefits? Here, the answer will inevitably require someone to have more than a 'material interest' in things, as the logic of materialism will always end up suggesting compromise and appeasement as the best course and resistance one for fools.
     
  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Given that nobody else but Venezuela wants to buy oil I have little doubt there will soon be a whole fleet of recently bought tankers steaming to the area.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
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  13. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Venezuela has plenty of oil and doesn't need to import oil! In fact, by some accounts, they have the world's largest reserves of oil! And their oil production is more than enough to meet their domestic needs. What they lack is gasoline or fuel (which is far from being offered for free anywhere!) -- which requires the oil to be treated, including using certain chemicals which they have been deprived of and didn't have. Besides delivering fuel to Venezuela, Iran is also providing Venezuela with those chemicals and some experts to help them restart their fuel production.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The latest news. In this regard, while the Venezuelan government may control who is placed on top of their oil company, PDVSA, those who actually run the company day-to-day (and have run it to the ground) are still beholden to their old masters!

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ian-fuel-under-new-price-system-idUSKBN2383HX
    Long lines, confusion as Venezuela sells Iranian fuel under new price system
     
  15. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that does jibe with what I've heard that the tankers are full of gasoline and not just crude oil. ( I'll bet you don't smoke on THAT ship).
     
  16. ErikH

    ErikH Banned

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    The International UN Sea Organisation says otherwise, so does the Satellite Data.

    And yes, as a policeman i can advice anyone to not comply orders from a mad regime like Venezuela. They tried an act of piracy
     
  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I gave you references, where you can hear the actual audios and what was going on between the Venezuelan Coast Guard and the captain of the Portuguese flagged ship. Did your 'sources' give you actual references, or did they insinuate it with impressionable words to deceive and brainwash you?.

    Washington and Nato's policy of not giving facts, in order to create alternate realities in people's minds is known as: 'Strategic ambiguity'.



    **STRATEGIC AMBIGUITY**
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    We're going to sing a wondrous song,
    to tell the world that right was wrong,
    and what you thought was naught before

    was just a lie that you had bought -
    from us! - Jeannette




     
  18. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Venezuela's refineries are not working thanks to the sanctions, so it can't refine the crude. What the US fears is that the tankers might be carrying the equipment to restore the Venezuelan refineries.

    The captain of the cruise ship admitted on an audio that the ship was in Venezuelan water, and you can hear it on the link I gave you. So if there really is a satellite photo, which is doubtful since the US never shows anything, it is a fake.

    You seem to have a very warped view of what is piracy. Since you're a policeman, do you have the same warped view of who is committing a criminal act, or do you arrest them because of some prejudice?
     
  19. ErikH

    ErikH Banned

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    No, you gave venezuealan bullshit. The IMO data says otehrwise. The ship was clearly outside venezuelean waters.

    And i can strongly advice to not follow orders from countries like venezuela. There is no functional law system. Its best to try to get away as fast as possible, since hostage taking is common there.

    The German Foreign Office clearly states thats diplomatic help can not be guaranteed in Venezuela and there is no functional legal system.
     
  20. ErikH

    ErikH Banned

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    Beside that, its epic that a german cruise ship sunk that venezueala morons. :D An unarmed cruise ship ha ha ha ha ha
     
  21. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I gave you a link to the actual audio of the captain, you haven't given me any links - which means there isn't any proof for what you are saying. So it's not the Venezuelan government that's saying the bullshit, it's your news sources.

    As for the German Foreign Office saying that it's not safe to go to Venezuela is understandable, since there is an attempt to overthrow the legally elected government and install an American puppet. There are also mercenaries and criminals from Columbia who are being paid by Washington to cause chaos in Venezuela, so it's not safe for foreigners.
     
  22. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia believes in peace, and that all nations can live peacefully and prosper through trade. It has nothing to do with materialism, which is purely Western European - although Putin would like to give the Russian people a higher standard of living.

    Even if Assad had asked Russia for help sooner, Putin wouldn't have been able to give it to him because of the economic situation they were facing at the time. The Federation was under a massive economic attack because of Crimea. Their oil revenues had dropped drastically as did the ruble.

    That Russia managed to survive those two turbulent years, had to do with the faith Putin put in Elvira Nabiullina, the head of the Russian bank. No one at the time expected Russia to pull through, yet she managed it by curbing inflation.

    It was because of the Western sanctions and the hardships Russia suffered, that Putin decided not to put so much emphasis on growth, but decided instead to secure the Federation's economic stability by eliminating all debt and building up Russia's military.
     
  23. ErikH

    ErikH Banned

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    You gave a link from Venezuela, any prove its legit? Nope.

    And no, the germam foreign office clearly states that no legal system exists in Venezueal and even basic rights are violated. A german journalist was several months in prison with out diplomatic contact.

    Its strongly adviced not to follow any orders from venezuelan officials and try to leave as quick as possible. The Resolute did right, the problem i see with the ship is, thatbthey had no armed guards on board to defend the ship, like they have in somali waters
     
  24. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...visit-iran-soon-sign-agreements-idUSKBN23905N
    Venezuela's Maduro says he will visit Iran soon, sign agreements
     
  25. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let me explain something which has nothing to do with Maduro. If a foreign country tried to overthrow your elected president, would it matter to you if that president was good or bad? I don't think so, because no one has the right to interfere in the business of another nation. Well that's the problem here. Venezuela is not trying to overthrow the American president, it's the American government that is trying to overthrow Maduro and put in someone they want.

    I gave you a link and tried to find more information on the cruise ship the Resolute. What I came across is the following link. It tells of all the bad actions of the ship in the past, and how they didn't pay the crew, and never refunded money when they couldn't sail, etc., etc.

    Considering that the ship was always in debt, and resorted to a lot of trickery, it is reasonable for Maduro to consider that it might be transporting mercenaries to Venezuela. No doubt he had word of an impending invasion, otherwise they wouldn't have caught the mercenaries when they did invade.

    From what I gathered, the ship is just sitting somewhere, yet the company in Halifax that has been booking it is still booking, even though they have no ships. So do you want to believe a bunch of crooks, or Venezuela. I think Venezuela has the better case.

    "While the media is covering the bizarre incident at sea as a humorous and wacky story which provides a welcome break from the coronavirus deluge, in fact, the reason why the ice-class cruise vessel was steaming towards the Caribbean involves a long trail of unpaid suppliers, creditors, and vendors, unpaid crew members, and hundreds of passengers who are now out tens of thousands of dollars each for luxury polar expeditions that will never happen."
    https://www.cryopolitics.com/2020/04/09/the-strange-saga-of-rcgs-resolute/
     

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