Venezuelan opposition recognized as government by Trump

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Doug_yvr, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you missed my point. You wrote > > >
    It is the U.S. that is "starving a nation to death". This time it's Venezuela but there have been many. Therefore I asked you if you think of the U.S. as a socialist state.
     
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  2. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Same answer, foolish mortal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  3. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member

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    There are socialist policies in Capitalist countries (we have extensive health
    care programs in Aust for instance) and there's pure socialist countries.
    These as a rule have proven failures on an economic and human rights basis.
    I can't think of one that I would like to live in. But I would be happy to go live
    in England, Denmark, Singapore, Japan, Sth Korea, Germany, Canada etc..
     
  4. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am sitting here thinking to myself, "Should I ask Poohbear what he thinks a 'pure Socialist country' is?" Nah, I know your answer will be silly.
     
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  5. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Venezeula—close enough to call it.
     
  6. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Poohbear will turn in a much better reply than that.
     
  7. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But none more real.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  8. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member

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    No system is pure anything. What I mean is that a country doesn't have
    just socialist programs, but is ruled by socialists.
    I am sure there is still some capitalism in Venezuela. I believe it's semi-
    legal private farmers who keep North Koreans alive. But I call both
    systems 'socialist.'

    As an aside. Unless Venezuela goes completely Stalinist the govt could
    fall. You need a high level of violence to maintain socialist systems when
    you take away people's livelihoods, private property, right of worship,
    freedom to travel and political rights.
     
  9. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Funny how so many right winger fail to condemn Israel which was founded by socialists and whose economic system (one where they have universal health care) remains largely socialist.
     
  10. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Something you have already done to me on this thread.

    No big deal in Venezuela.

    Oh dear, another one.

    First, you are wrong about 'regime change'. Sometimes it does work. Ignorance tends to breed unwarranted confidence. If it was a bunch of racist white Sth Africans suffering the way Venezuelans are you would be demanding regime change and that they all be given refugee status. Guess Maduro isn't black enough to get angry about.

    Second, who are 'my masters'? I'm curious. I have a couple of bosses, but 'masters' seems a bit extreme. Other than that I'm out of ideas. Is this about black people again?
     
  11. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member

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    Same as Australia, and Britain, and the Scandinavian countries.
    You can have socialist programs, but they are underpinned by
    thriving capitalist economies.
    Venezuela destroyed its capitalist economy, beginning with
    farm expropriation.
     
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  12. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And yet, still light years better than other Mideast country.
     
  13. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Just when the infamous Cuban Republicanism was finally dying out we get these anti socialist Venezuelan exiles in Miami reviving conservativism in Florida (a state notorious for its close percentages in every election).
     
  14. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes but this has nothing to do with Maduro. Support of the Opposition has been something the EU has been encouraging strongly since 2012. Israel has been supporting the Opposition, who are Neo Liberal, not Social Democrat as everyone keeps saying from at least the same time. I go into that in more detail in this post

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...n-troops-starve.550527/page-5#post-1070213585

    The US has been against Venezuela since Chavez, since its prior coup in 2002, many of the US people who were involved in that being involved now. I hear the US has been providing $4,000,000 a year to that opposition since. It has never stopped working to destroy Social Democracy in Venezuela. As I say in the post I linked to above, yesterday my tv YouTube brought me an Israeli who I think is just a blogger - but a very committed on going one and he spoke about what is going on in Venezuela as being a US/Israel operation. Now up until then although all the way along people kept mentioning Israel, that was the first time I had heard anyone not just definitely suggesting Israel having an involvement but putting that involvement as to equal with the US - though as I say in that link he later did diminish it to being mainly the US. Nonetheless that with knowledge that Israel and possibly the EU or some EU countries, keeping their people in the dark, appear to also have been funding the Venezuela Operation at least since 2012 suggests that this is a far larger longstanding intent to force change of the government of Venezuela - to destroy the democracy of Venezuela.

    What is going on with everyone thinking Juan Guaido is a Social Democrat? Well this appears to be what many of the opposition pretended to be but more it appears to be a tactic the US and friends are using in Latin and central America to divide the left. To that I would suggest to divide the left in the West as well.

    So, EU involvement has nothing to do with what they think of Maduro. Support of the Opposition in Venezuela from the EU has been going since at least prior to the last win of Chavez. For some reason it is support seemingly emanating from Germany (see link) of the Opposition Neo liberals against Social Democracy in Venezuela. Democratic Socialism is what the UK had prior to Thatcherism. Corbyn is a Democratic Socialist and there is an ongoing smearing campaign against him by the Corporate Press which the London School of Economics believes far exceeds any freedom of the press and particularly given most of it is lies, is itself an attack on UK Democracy.

    So we have the US not only doing this to Venezuela but also being involved in recent or current regime change in Nicaragua. I am not up to speed on that but what seems to be going on is the US trying to get control back of Latin and Central America arranging regime change and what not against non Neo Liberal countries. We have this supported by many but not all countries in Europe and strongly by Israel. We also have this situation strongly disapproved of by most of the world - that is something our papers do not tell us when they say according to the country reporting, 30 or 50 countries agree with the US. Contrary then to what you say later, it does appear that we have the old cold war apparatus working again - in this instance working itself out against Latin America.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  15. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This article written in 2014 when one still had a hope of the Guardian presenting things as they are gives a very different picture to what all of the Corporate Press come up with now. They see the intent of Regime Change which has only recently been put into practice. This is not a Democrat or Republican thing. It is both. It also correctly points out that what is going on in Venezuela primarily is a class struggle. Of particular interest is that it correctly describes Leopold Lopez, that man who apparently in 2014 created a Social Democratic party called Popular Will of which Juan Guaido is a member, as extreme right.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/04/venezuela-protests-not-ukraine-class-sturggle
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  16. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was just reading Trump’s quote in the OP.

    CARACAS, Venezuela — President Nicolas Maduro on Wednesday faced the gravest challenge to his authority since assuming power in 2013, as the U.S.-backed opposition claimed the legitimate mantle of leadership, and President Trump promptly recognized him as Venezuela’s interim president.

    “Today, I am officially recognizing the President of the Venezuelan National Assembly, Juan Guaido, as the Interim President of Venezuela,” Trump said in a statement. “In its role as the only legitimate branch of government duly elected by the Venezuelan people, the National Assembly invoked the country’s constitution to declare Nicolas Maduro illegitimate, and the office of the presidency therefore vacant. The people of Venezuela have courageously spoken out against Maduro and his regime and demanded freedom and the rule of law.”

    First of all what does "since assuming power" mean?
    Secondly, Maduro was Democratically elected, Guaido was not.
    Thirdly, how can Trump “officially recognize Guaido as the President of Venezuela" if Trump has no official power in Venezuelan government to begin with?

    And then there is the OP’s own remarks > > >

    Hello? Guaido is not the Democratically elected President so you just are blowing hot air.
     
  17. Doug_yvr

    Doug_yvr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The National Assembly is democratically elected.
     
  18. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Guaido has not been democratically elected to president.
     
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  19. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Neither has Maduro.

    Guaido was democratically elected to preside over the legislature.
     
  20. For Topical Use Only

    For Topical Use Only Well-Known Member

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    Nothing says 'globalist' more than little Donny installing a fake leader in a foreign nation.
     
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