Veterans to Congress: End Forever Wars

Discussion in 'Veterans' started by Ethereal, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Infinitely worse" ? what a joke of a claim to start with. Do tell how Ayatollah was infinitely worse than Saddam - and how this justified use of Chemical weapons ?

    Regardless - what does the above have to do with the "Iraq had WMD" nonsense narrative prior to the rush to war.
     
  2. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Lebanon_relations

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/iran

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Yemen_relations

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Palestine_relations

    None of this justifies Iraq using WMDs but it show how right the West was to back Iraq despite Saddam's inherent evil. Iraq did have WMD, what we're arguing about is that Iraq had no manufacturing programme which it did not.
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why would you post 7 links - but not a single quote from any of these links that relates to the what is being discussed ?
     
  4. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Like what? Iran sponsors terrorism across the globe, subverts its' people's human rights, terrorises its' neighbours and is a lot closer to nukes than Saddam ever was?
     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure - please cite from your links the terrorist activities that Iran was engaged in prior to the Iran-Iraq war.

    - and show how Iran was closer to nukes than Iraq at this time period ?
     
  6. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    40,617
    Likes Received:
    5,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think you have Iran confused with Trump's best friends, the Saudis.
     
    Eleuthera and Giftedone like this.
  7. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Sure, it took the US embassy hostage.
     
  8. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The Saudis for all their flaws are our friends, partly because they are the bulwark against Iran, people try to equate the 2 in order to excuse Iran.
     
  9. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,694
    Likes Received:
    11,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You seem to have certain players confused.

    Several months ago it was the US government that took control of the Venezuelan Embassy in the District of Columbia. We can't get the Venezuelan military to overthrow Maduro, so we installed our puppet staff in the Embassy in Washington. Rather makes Putin look like a Boy Scout, eh?
     
  10. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, during the Iranian revolution the US embassy staff in Tehran were held hostage for nearly a year by the Iranian theocratic dictatorship. This does not compare with the US recognising the democratic opposition to the Caracas dictatorship who took over the DC embassy after Maduro closed it and all other diplomatic residences, for your to compare the 2 smacks of utter desperation.
     
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The US Embassy in Iran ? That is not a terrorist act sans some serious grasping at straws - but, lets grant this as a terrorist act.

    How many of the hostages were killed in this so called " terrorist attack" ?

    On a scale of 1-10 - how do you rank the Iran hostage crisis ? I rank Iran a (1) - and the using chemical weapons - Sarin Gas - on civilian populations (aka the Kurds) - killing thousands in just one of the strikes (9)

    I can go further but, at this point - I would say take stone out of own eye - before trying to pick the spec out of your brothers eye.

    and that's just for starters - we have not defined (10) on our terrorist act scale.

    10 - would be leading the global effort to arm, supply and support a Radical Islamist Proxy army - one led by Al Qaeda - and others of the same Saudi Inspired Radical Islamist Ideology.

    The death toll from that terrorist action exceeds 400,000 - the history books - already written - will find us guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
     
  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    42,019
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Indeed. It's waste. Not a weapon anymore.

    The facts are: there never was a communist dictatorship in Iran. And the only dictatorship of Iran, was when the US uprooted a democracy and put in a terrorist in charge. Iran was in it's full right to oust the murderous fascist and the entire institute that aided him behind the walls of the US embassy. And it's not as if the US never attacked an embassy.
     
  13. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So what if no one was killed? Hostage taking is a terrorist act. No ones arguing that Saddam wasn't an evil SOB but look at what Iran has got up to in my links and you'll see how right the West was to back him against the Ayatollah to stop him reaching the borders of Saudi/Kuwait.

    Individual Saudis backed AQ, not their government, otherwise the US is to blame for the Troubles in NI.
     
  14. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, there never was, thankfully the CIA got in and stopped it in the nick of time. The Shah was progressive, advancing women's rights, recognising Israel etc, his rule was positively benevolent compared to the current regime. Iran is one of the greatest ever arguments for supporting friendly dictators.

    What "murderous and fascist institute"? Don't be absurd. Have you been listening to Tehran Mary?
     
  15. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    42,019
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's like saying the CIA also stopped the marshians from landing in Iran because of that. lol

    Current regime? The Shah was violently oppressive compared to the PREVIOUS government.

    He got people tortured to death by the 10.000's. Just insane to call that friendly. The Iranians were in their full rights to end that American installed fascist and remove the CIA out of their country. The Americans owe the Iranians an incredible debt of that massacre those 10.000's of people who got tortured to death, as well fully supporting the WMD attack on their nation. Things like this makes the Americans the biggest supporter of terrorism on the planet.

    All this is, are a bunch of far right wing hawks being butthurt that their geopolitcal game in Iran failed, and can't get their greedy hands on the riches of Iran.

    The Americans tried the same thing with Afghanistan. The army surveyed the lands for natural resources to leech. Hence they send them idiots of the US army over there willing to spill their lives over it. "forever wars".

    [​IMG]
    ^^
    Idiot treated like an idiot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  16. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,694
    Likes Received:
    11,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Desperation is describing a government that overthrows legitimately elected leaders around the world as "democratic". Look in the mirror.
     
  17. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I do and I see someone who believes in democracy and freedom. What do YOU see?
     
  18. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    1. History says otherwise, look at all the countries where the West backed friendly dictators then restored them to democracy once the Cold War was over.
    2. The Shah was better than the alternative as we saw time and again with the commies.
    3. The Shah was a despot no argument but one who was progressive, recognising Israel, helping women's rights etc, I'd have welcomed his toppling if he'd been replaced by a democratic regime but he wasn't, he was replaced by an infinitely worse regime.
    4. No one wants the riches of Iran, they just want Iran to leave the rest of the world alone. The West went into Afghanistan because that's where AQ were and the Taliban wouldn't give them up.
    5. So the US isn't a perfect paradise for its' war veterans? Find me the country which is?
     
  19. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    42,019
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One gimps in Latin America shows it all was pointless. And they did not restore any democracy there.

    Except the elected government wasn't communistic.

    He was repressive compared to the elected government. People got killed for wanting to be free. The US supported those massacres.

    It is well known that the coup against the elected government of Iran was all about oil.

    The Taliban were willing to hand over Bin Laden. The US army did survey the lands in search of natural resources.

    I don't recall these vets begging for scraps in the UK.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  20. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,694
    Likes Received:
    11,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Someone who also believes in democracy and freedom, but one who is also able to face the truth, no matter how unpleasant it may be.
     
  21. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If that's true you should agree with me.
     
  22. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    1. The flowering of democracy in Latin America post Cold War shows how right the US was.
    2. The elected government was certainly drifting that way.
    3. People got killed wanted to bring in the Ayatollah.
    4. It was about oil, wanting to stop the USSR dominating it and controlling the Straits of Hormuz
    5. No they weren't, GW gave them the choice and they shot him down.
    6. Every society has its' homeless vets, you're just anti-American and want to find fault with the above all else.
     
  23. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    42,019
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You ranted nonsense that the US restored the democracies there. The people there did it themselves. They voted in all kinds of democratic socialist governments... showing the US was wrong thinking it would become communistic.
    That is a conspiracy theory at best.

    source it

    Nonsense again. It was about oilfields in Iran.

    Utter and total nonsense.
    Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

    Again. I don't recall the vets in the UK begging for scraps. It's all over the US.

    You're just a insanely patriotic American that attempts to rewrite your countries history in a pathetic and desperate way.
     
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1) You have made up your own definition of "Terrorist Act". 2) I did not say that your definition was wrong 3) your claim that the Rotten Ronnie was right to back Saddam's use of Chemical Weapons is not supported anything you have cited from your links.

    The claim that the Saudi Gov't did not back the Radical Islamist Jihadist proxy army in Syria is demonstrably false preposterous nonsense on Steroids.

    The effort to Army this Jihadist proxy army - one led in party by Al Qaeda - was a global effort which was led by the US and fully supported by the Saudi's.
     
  25. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    1. Really? Tell that to the Panamanians. With the end of the Cold War the US and West in general no longer supported their dictators and their own people swept them from power.

    2. Hell no, Mossadegh had already allied himself with the communist Tudeh party and taken money from Moscow, he was another Castro in the making.

    3. Sure
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution#Armed_battles_and_collapse_of_the_monarchy

    4. Yes, Iran's oil production and strategic dominance of the Gulf.

    5. Nonsense;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talib...Government_and_further_battle_against_Taliban

    6. I've met plenty of homeless ex-servicemen, open your eyes.

    And not American.
     

Share This Page