Vikings In The East, The Normans

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by Margot, Sep 15, 2011.

  1. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    Not really. Many people have a sort of innate belief that people before us were somewhat less intelligent than us, which is not true. One could say this starts with our parents :)

    The fact is that the ancients have contributed to all areas of sohisticated studies and professions before we have even thought it possible without computers. One such example was Eratosthenes, who was able to figure the circumference of the earth more than two hundred years BC using the shades from pillars in two different parts of Egypt.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes

    He made what seems like a very complicated thing a really simple thing with observation, imagination, and fairly simple mathematics. The simplicity is breath-taking.
     
  2. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    it may have started out with parentsand teachers but it's racist, there was no questioning of ancient Egyptian or greek building abilities just that of american indians(they're too primitive)..."I do not believe these ancient people were able to build it, because they did not knew what the wheel" the Eyptians didn't have any wheeled means capable of moving the building materials they used...and there others that did the same http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/top50stones.htm ...



    i had a similar discussion with my daughter the archeologist just the other day, how we over think things with our current knowledge trying to comprehend ancient knowledge, we don't think with same simple clarity as the ancients did...to understand how they solved problems we have to think in their terms with the the tools they had available...how do you move a 100ton stone without wheels? ...how do you calculate like the ancients?...
     
  3. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I wasn't just referring to them, but all ancient peoples. Part of the mystery people have about these things come from the fact that they generally believe ancient people shouldn't have been able to do it.

    Having a daughter/family member that's an archaeologist sounds freakin cool. I like the explanation. Had to be something, right?
     
  4. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I doubt. They just had big ears.
     
  5. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

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    well they sure met their match in Newfoundland and Greenland. the Skraelings kicked their asses.
     
  6. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We beat the hell out of them too, under Owain Gwynedd. They did help one of our princes to sail to America though, and allegedly set up a 'Welsh' tribe, the Mandans, to the finding of whom a great deal of national effort was devoted, whether usefully is debatable.
     
  7. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

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    whata bunch of crap. and the skraelings ran you out of L'Anse meadows and western Greenland.
     
  8. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your mind is not on the job, kid. To whom do you suppose yourself to be talking?
     
  9. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

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    to whomever I damn well please, pal.
     
  10. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, try to talk something relevant to what they say, or people will be hurrying away from you every time you come in.

    - - - Updated - - -
     
  11. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

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    p-ss off
     
  12. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    The story of the Viking settlement of Greenland and its eventual demise is fascinating.

    Jared Diamond devoted a chapter to it in "Collapse"

    - - - Updated - - -

    The story of the Viking settlement of Greenland and its eventual demise is fascinating.

    Jared Diamond devoted a chapter to it in "Collapse"
     
  13. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    What the h*ll is going on when a simple bit of history turns Americans into mean idiots?
     
  14. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    speculation, we have no idea why they left...perhaps the natives forced them to leave, they did outnumber them and they were farmers/settlers not a raiding party/vikings...that they stayed in Newfoundland for a period would suggest they left of their own accord...abandonment of Greenland also appears to be a voluntary departure...
     
  15. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Certain persons seem to want to turn all history into abuse of 'asses', that's the trouble. Everyone to his own taste.
     
  16. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    I understand, I was making light of the typical "western/euro" view which is highly racist that native americans were less intelligent too primitive... that rational has spawned some ridiculous ideas of Egyptians, Phoenicians, Romans and even Aliens building the Mayan, Aztec and Inca structures...



    I wanted to be a archeologist when I went to Uni but my career took a different path, my daughter shared my interest and surprised me by studying archeology as well as attaining a degree in Medieval European history...the information/insight she provides me is enlightening but a little humbling having some of established ideas being trashed by my kid...
     
  17. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

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    not according to the history ive read
     
  18. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    you need to be careful of what you read(who wrote it) or how you interpret it, legitimate archeologists rarely make definitive statements because the evidence is rarely there, they may speculate as to circumstances but that's about it...

    are you a fan of Gabriel Dumont ?
     
  19. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    I assume you are agreeing with my post rather than thinking that of my post....

    Have you read "Collapse"? I don't know whether Diamond is correct- he is a history synthesizor but he discusses how civilizations have collapsed- and Greenland is one of the examples- along with Easter Island and some others.
     
  20. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

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    Gabriel Dumont was one of the most outstanding men Canada ever produced. and I didn't get my information from archeologists.
     
  21. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    Diamond offers a different perspective he sees a "bigger picture", he may not be correct on all his ideas but he's respected enough in the anthropology/archeology circles to be required reading in Uni ...
     
  22. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    archeologist? na you would've got that from a historian...my bro-in-law is a Metis from duck lake...
     
  23. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

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    I grew up in the midst of all the lagimodieres, telliers, lafrenniers etc etc in st vital, right next to st Boniface. i'm an anglo but to me metis and voyageur history is the most fascinating part of Canadian history. I just downloaded the journals of alexander henry of his travels post 1759! fabulous stuff. I have been to duck lake and I finally made my pilgrimage to batoche a couple of summers ago.

    the Manitoba metis just won a huge victoy in the supreme court last week!! good on them!!
     
  24. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    I lived in S'toon and school day trips to Batoche were routine...

    I have mixed feelings regarding settlements with the Metis, yes deals need to be honored but where does it end?
     
  25. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

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    it ends when the deals that were made are honoured. breach of contract is a horrible sin to the establishment until its their breach!

    I hear Saskatoon is a real nice town.
     

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