Virginia-Based Imam Sulaiman Jalloh: Allah Willing, America Will Be a Muslim Nation

That's a cheap lie - I never claimed ISIS represents Islam.

I claimed

1) Your claim that Christians don't die at the hands of ISIS is bullshit

and

2) ISIS is a takfirist blood cult.

You can't dispute the fact that ISIS has killed Christians, but if you'd like to debate whether or not ISIS is a takfirst blood cult by all means state your case...

 

ISIS, a tiny sect that has spectacularly failed to attract adherents by other than lethal force, claims that is what they do.

However, the rest of Islam says they do not.

So, who the HECK are you to say that ISIS is the true religion???

 

I'm fine with your 1 and 2.

I'd point out that they kill Jews, Muslims, and atheists, too. I don't know why you limited it to Christians.

The other major point we have to remember is that ISIS represent Islam even less than the KKK represents America.

Those who are fighting ISIS are almost all Muslims.

Those who prevent ISIS from coming back into their communities include Muslims.

We need to support Islam in their opposition to ISIS.

 

I didn't limit it to Christians. I explicitly stated that "they've massacred Yazidis and ANY other group they deem insufficiently Islamic in their eyes. It doesn't matter if they're Muslim or not. That's how takfirists roll."

I'm aware of all that and I don't disagree with you, but ISIS is at war with the world. We ALL need to support each other.

 

OK, but if that "support each other" doesn't include Islam, then we're making a GIGANTIC mistake.

The ONLY way to keep ISIS out of a region is for the residents in that region to want to keep them out. If that fundamental isn't present, then ISIS survives. I'm not suggesting that's sufficient, but it is a requirement. The locals CAN get overwhelmed as we've seen.

We need to support them such that they are not overwhelmed.

We won't (in fact, can't) do that if we hate them.

 

Its still going on today. "Until.... religion should only be for Allah". They haven't yet achieved their goal.

"Jihad is an obligation from Allah on every Muslim and cannot be ignored nor evaded.... It is the nature of Islam to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its law on all nations and to extend its power to the entire planet." al-Banna

Ibn Khaldoon "A representation, of the one who has the right to adopt the divine rules, aimed at protecting the Deen and ruling the world (Dunia) with it."

"Islam is not merely a belief, so that it is enough merely to preach it. Islam, which is a way of life, takes practical steps to organize a movement for freeing man. Other societies do not give it any opportunity to organize its followers according to its own method, and hence it is the duty of Islam to annihilate all such systems, as they are obstacles in the way of universal freedom. ...
This religion is really a universal declaration of the freedom of man from servitude to other men and from servitude to his own desires, which is also a form of human servitude; it is a declaration that sovereignty belongs to God alone and that He is the Lord of all the worlds. It means a challenge to all kinds and forms of systems which are based on the concept of the sovereignty of man; in other words, where man has usurped the Divine attribute." Qutb

 

We you need to support those muslims who oppose ISIS in their opposition to ISIS. "Islam" is ISIS's biggest supporter.

 

ISIS finds inspiration in the founding documents of Islam. KKK doesn't find any of their inspiration in the founding documents of the US.

 

???? ISIS has attracted adherents of Islam from all over the world to make the dangerous trip to ISIS territory, just so they could willingly and eagerly support ISIS.

 

I said-
They follow a strict, literal interpretation of the Koran. Id say they more represent Islam than a muslim who doesn't follow the Koran.

 

No, there isn't a war against Islam going on. Nor is there a war against Christianity going on.

You're misinterpreting "jihad".

The expressions of early Christians were similar to those of similar times that you quote.

They often saw military victory as a religious conversion - all Hungry was converted by a king, there were the various inquisitions of the Holy Roman Empire, used to force strict religious uniformity.

Yes, early thinkers did not see division of government and religion as compatible with god's law.

We've seen a general progression toward separation of church and state including in the ME. Many nations haven't gotten there yet. Even our close ally Israel isn't there yet.

 

This is total nonsense. Islam sees ISIS as apostate.

 

Yes, that's a problem. We should be working on that - and we are, at least to the extent that there are agencies that clearly watch this, as evidenced by those we catch and our awareness of the issue.

However, that doesn't support your argument. ISIS remains an infinitesimal backwater of hate that is denied by the vast majority.

 

What benefit is there in you making this suggestion?

The vast majority of Islam says you are wrong.

Isn't that the very best possible result we could attain wrt Islam?

 

I didn't say there was . Looking for a strawman to hide behind?

That's not my interpretation and is instead the interpretations of the Muslims quoted.

Islamic doctrine does not see division of government and religion as compatible. The Islamic Caliphates applying Islamic doctrine as law, as they existed from 632 until the 1920s and again for a few years recently under ISIS, IS THE RULE under Islam, It's 90 year absence the exception.

Heres another Muslims interpretation you will likely attribute to me.

Their fascination was arisen after the defenders of democracy and the
defenders of other such false ideologies (who have no religion) defended democracy simply for the sake of it, and they mixed the falsehood with the Truth.
..... They distort the Truth with Falsehood, and mix the Light with the Darkness, and the Polytheism of democracy with the Monotheism of Islam. But we, with the help of Allah, replied to all of these fallacies, and showed that democracy is a religion. But it is not Allahs religion. It is not the religion of monotheism, and its parliamentary councils are just places of polytheism, and safe havens for paganistic beliefs. All of these must be avoided to achieve monotheism, which is Allahs right upon His servants. We must destroy those who follow democracy, and we must take their followers as enemies - hate them and wage a great Jihad against them.
Abu Muhammad 'Aasim al-Maqdisi

 

Sounds like you don't dispute the claim and you just don't want it stated.

 

You just vehemently denied it in the previous post.

 

Percent of Muslims who favor making Sharia law the law of the land.



.

 

You started your post with "It's still going on today". If you didn't mean religious war (which is essentially what you talk about) then what did you mean?

You're quoting ancients. You are NOT quoting what Islam is today. As pointed out, Christians of the same era saw their job as conquering nations for Christ.

Yet, we've seen secular governments in the ME.

Even Sadam Husein maintained a secular government.

AGAIN you pretend that terrorists define Islam.

Your hate has you TOTALLY addled.

 

No, I'm searching for what possible benefit there is in your argument.

I'm not suggesting I accept ANY element of your argument.

Maybe you can convince me that you aren't just pure hate.

 

We have courts in the US that accept Sharia law if the parties agree. They still operate under our constitution.

Plus, I don't see the USA on that list.

Please remember that many of these countries have systems of law that are not anywhere close to ours.

They may well say they want Sharia law, because the law they have at present is worse.

You're just taking data points out of thin air and pretending they support some preconceived notion of YOURS.

 

Anot

Another tacke away:
Look at how widely views spread concerning sharia law!

In no way is it a uniform demand within the religion.

You need to abandon this fear of sharia that you have:
- sharia is not one single standard
- Muslims have differing views about sharia. It is not a uniform demand of Islam.
- It's used in some US courts without it being a problem
- In some countries, Muslims express no serious interest, a strong clue that desire for sharia may be a reflection on the existing law of the country in question.

 

The religious war by the Islamic Fundamentalist against non Muslims and Muslims who don't adhere to their views. I was denying your claim of a religious war against Islam

One was ancient. The other two are 20th century writings. Al Banna was the founder of the Muslim brotherhood. The largest Islamic political movement in the world today.

Revealing how you view ANY criticism of Islamic doctrine as hate.

 

Revealing that you view my simply posting the PEW research on Muslims attitudes towards Sharia as fear of sharia.

 

Yes, you are right.

I think there was a concern behind picking that study.

And, I suspect we can reduce that concern based on that cite.