Virginia is the front line now

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by BryanVa, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. eschaff

    eschaff Active Member

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    By all accounts it was a very peaceful gathering. I don't agree with their opposition to these particular proposals, but this is a great example of how people should protest should they so wish.
     
  2. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I still laugh myself silly over that white supremist that had his DNA tested and found he was part 'black' LOL
     
  4. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    If not 'assault weapons', where do you draw the line?
     
  5. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    There's no rational reason to believe a ban on 'assault weapons' will do this, so your point is moot.
     
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  6. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    wait, so you are calling for the deaths of Virginia law makers, attempting to violate the 2nd amendment?
     
  7. eschaff

    eschaff Active Member

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    The second amendment is up for interpretation. Several rulings by the Supreme Court have demonstrated this. I believe that the original poster is actually speaking to those who have threatened rebellion if certain laws restricting gun ownership are enacted. Personally, I think most of those saying such things are only guilty of hyperbole.
     
  8. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Seems to me Virginia was the front line in 1860 too.
     
  9. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    The rulings of the supreme court precludes everything VA is attempting to implement, with the exception of universal background checks.
     
  10. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    We're these guys in Virginia yesterday? Or is this a fake picture?
     
  11. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    There were 27K people there, do you doubt any were black? Did you see any news footage? We had a live feed here that showed plenty of blacks. Sorry no violence happened and the "white supremacist rally" angle, failed to pan out.
     
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  12. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which has nothing to do with your posted statement.

    "While I support the right of citizens to own guns, is it really worth killing your fellow citizens if the sale of assault-style weapons is banned? There seems to be a segment of our society who prays for a zombie apocalypse just so they can pretend to be the warrior hero of their favorite video game or tv show."

    Now try again.
     
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  13. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is a real picture of the type of people who where there.

    [​IMG]


    Not thugs or gun nuts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  14. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    OK. Thanks for the real picture. These people look different than the ones they showed on the news.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  15. wombat

    wombat Well-Known Member

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    I cant see a problem. A "firearm" doesnt include bow and arrows does it? So hunting is still a sport albeit a more challenging one where the mountain lion might have a chance at winning.

    Then there is the comment "Pray for Virginia" I manned a firetruck many years ago, the fire was at the rear of my friends house. As we raced to the fire my friend with his wife and kids waved to me as I rode on the back. He later told me he was on his way to church and mentioned "I prayed for you". Yeh right, I prayed you'd take up the vacancy on the back of the truck to the fire that threatened your home. Your prayers were answered, mine weren't" Go figure.

    So we can all pray for Virginia and the weaponless citizens. Maybe prayers will be answered in the less school kids that adorn the walls of where they learn?
     
  16. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with matters of sport. How many times must this be explained before it is understood?

    Following such logic presented above, the first amendment is not violated if all digital forms of communication are outlawed, so long as printing presses are still allowed. The right to travel is not violated if motor vehicles are outlawed, so long as bicycles are still allowed.

    Firearm-related restrictions that focus on private citizens will do absolutely nothing to address the illegal use and misuse of firearms, especially by those who cannot legally possess firearms but possess them regardless.
     
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  17. BryanVa

    BryanVa Well-Known Member

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  18. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Virginia lawmakers should be presumed innocent of any crime unless they are indicted by a grand jury and convicted by a trial jury. Have any lawmakers been charged with treason?
     
  19. BryanVa

    BryanVa Well-Known Member

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  20. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    I still think they should have choose a different day to hold their rally. Let the MLK holiday be reserved in remembrance of MLK.
    And there were White Supremacist folks planning to attend this rally. They were stopped by law enforcement.
     
  21. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Can you prove this claim?
     
  22. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The day is not reserved exclusively for members of the black minority. The hold otherwise, to hold that it belongs exclusively to the black minority, is to argue against the beliefs of Martin Luther King.
     
  23. BryanVa

    BryanVa Well-Known Member

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    The Right of the people to keep and bear arms is not a hunting right, nor is hunting the reason why the pre-existing right was included in the Bill of Rights for protection.

    Your argument says a partial ban of a right is not an impermissible infringement because the government allows you some other method of exercising the right.

    The same argument applies this way: Government bans you from internet blogging as a way of petitioning your government for a redress of your grievances but says that ban is OK because it will still allow you to write a letter to the editor of the local paper.

    A partial infringement of a right remains exactly that—an infringement.
     
  24. BryanVa

    BryanVa Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate your belief in this view, but I do ask that you listen to what you are saying.

    Dr. King campaigned for equality amongst what he called “all God’s children.” His greatest tool in that fight for equality was how he made use of the universal right of all to peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    And you argue that the best way to honor Dr. King is to take the very day we choose to celebrate his legacy and turn it into a day of segregation—a day to deny the freedom of all—regardless of race or gender—to assemble and petition the government for a redress of their grievances.

    Can’t you see the irony of your position? I submit this is not an argument which Alice would ever have expected to see—at least on this side of the looking glass.

    MLK day is called “lobby day” in Richmond for the express purpose of honoring the legacy of the man who fought for the rights of everyone to be treated equally. It is the traditional day for everyone—regardless of skin color or cause—to show up en mass and petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with what happened Monday. And that is the great problem for those who dislike the RKBA. Nothing bad happened. No shots were fired. No one was hurt. No one rampaged and overturned cars, assaulted journalists or police, tore down barriers, or set fires. Why? Because these people are not the problem. Every mass rally should use this one as an example for how to peacefully assemble and for having enough civic responsibility to clean up after themselves.

    The best estimates put the crowd at over 26,000 people. I would only ask that you not try to de-legitimize everyone who appeared because you argue some white supremacists planned to attend the rally—who you also claim did not even appear because they were “stopped by law enforcement.”

    Honestly, it would not surprise me if a few “white supremacists” did try to show up, for these idiots would naturally try to attach themselves to a real movement in an attempt to leech some of its legitimacy into their own foolish ideas.

    And what support would they have found for their particular cause had they shown up? Would they have found a sympathetic ear in those holding up signs talking about Dr. King? Or by the ones holding up the signs that compared the governor to Hitler? Or by the ones holding up signs comparing gun control to racist policies of the past? Or would they have found friends in the ones holding up signs ridiculing the governor for appearing in blackface while standing next to a man in a full klan uniform? Or would they have found solidarity with the ones holding up signs that said to the governor we found your white supremacist, and it is you? Or with those holding signs saying gun rights are trans rights, or gun rights are woman’s rights?

    And, if a handful of them had actually shown up—does that really justify an attempt to discredit the thousands of others who do not support the ideas of white supremacy but instead appeared to support a race-neutral rally for the purpose of demanding the recognition and protection of what they argue is a universal civil right of all mankind? I respectfully submit it does not.

    And yet I know there are people who hate and fear the individual RKBA. I know they do not want to acknowledge the arguments of people who believe otherwise. I know they want to discredit opposing arguments and positions, and to do this they want to de-legitimize those who hold these contrary positions as being something less than real, worthy human beings with honest concerns. Those who would argue the rally goers must be dangerous “gun nuts”—and so forth. These people are the ones disappointed by the example set by this rally—for the participants did not live up to the desired dangerous/crazy/evil stereotype their opponents wanted to see.

    The rally goers did nothing wrong. They damaged no property. They did not riot. They did not endanger anyone or anything. They were even good stewards by cleaning up after themselves. And so—lacking an ability to criticize their actions—these critics of the civil right they marched in support of are left with the false argument that they must be ignored because they are evil white supremacists—for which there is no evidence beyond their fervent desire that it be so—and which all honest people must admit pales in comparison with the abundant evidence to the contrary.

    When you think about it, their very actions involve judging people based upon the color of their skin—too many who showed up were white, therefore they must be guilty of being white supremacists. Why? Because it is just and good to believe that skin color makes a man guilty until proven innocent of being the bad person you want them to be? Or is the real crime these rally goers are suspected of actually this: Daring to hold a view of a universal right—one specifically recognized in our Constitution—which their critics disagree with—and so they must be branded as evil people—without any evidence to support the claim—and in contradiction of the evidence that lies before them?

    I tell you that is what it appears to be to me.

    Finally, (and ironically enough) in falsely claiming that these rally goers must be some kind of white supremacist movement that should be ignored, these critics have unwittingly adopted the same mentality and tactics of those who tried to discredit Dr. King and his movement—those who could not challenge the ideas Dr. King championed and so were reduced to attacking his character as a way to de-legitimize the movement he led.

    I sincerely hope you are not one of those who would drink that Kool-Aid.

    On a final note, I noticed you questioned another blogger if a picture that was posted from the rally was legitimate or not. Look at the local Richmond Times-Dispatch webpage I cited earlier. You won’t see the same picture there which you have questions about, but you will see those same people in other photos that were taken that day.
     
  25. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    It was on the news.
     

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