Virginia passed good new gun control

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Ronstar, Apr 10, 2020.

  1. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    If that's how you want to phrase it, then yeah.

    So what you're saying is, an exemption from the rule of when you can purchase a gun with a background check exists, because of constitutional rights? And that doesn't fit the definition of a loophole (an exemption to the rules), because what again? Constitutionality has nothing to do with it. All you've done is explain why the loophole exists.

    Good...job? I'm so glad you're able to understand that point?


    You just did it again. Why did you add "and the legal purchasing of a firearm will not prevent an individual from being charged with such"? That's moving the goalpost.

    See above, it's a loophole. You just defined it as a loophole.

    Why are you assuming a person was convicted in the first place?


    The point is that they couldn't prove either way when he was filling out his application. He got through the system. It doesn't matter if he was convicted of a crime or not. What matters is they couldn't resolve the flag, so they had to treat him as if he was able to legally purchase a gun, even though they knew he was arrested, but could not confirm if he committed a crime. Now all I have to do is say a felon could go through that same process and get a gun out of it, because of loopholes like this.

    Yes they do. Most? No. But they can. But if you don't have to go through one of those fancy federally licensed firearm dealers, like if it was your friend you bought it off of, you don't have to go through a federal background check and can legally have the gun.
    "
    A consistent answer emerges from the inmate surveys and from ethnographic studies. Whether guns that end up being used in crime are purchased, swapped, borrowed, shared or stolen, the most likely source is someone known to the offender, an acquaintance or family member.

    For example, Syed Rizwan Farook – one of the shooters in San Bernardino – relied on a friend to get several of the rifles and pistols he used because Farook doubted that he could pass a background check. That a friend and neighbor was the source is quite typical, despite the unique circumstances otherwise."

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-sales-how-dangerous-people-get-weapons/


    Yeah, I'm pretty okay with that. More common than you would think. Think rallies the police know they wouldn't be able to handle if it went violent. Would I call it incompetence? Doubt it, just facts on the ground.

    A net is supposed to catch a fish, but it will escape from a hole in the net. You would need an exemption to the rule to get the gun past the thing that's supposed to catch them. Overly simplified but still. Why does that matter? Because if you can get a gun, you can have the gun until someone takes it away from you. It doesn't matter that felons aren't supposed to have a gun, what matters is the way they can get a gun from secondary sources.
     
  2. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    There are no loopholes regarding firearms purchases. Claiming there is, is like claiming there is a loophole for cash withdrawals because people rob banks.
     
  3. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    So now the concept of innocent until proven guilty is a loophole?

    It is not a loophole. Rather it is the principle of the statute of limitations. The government has a limited time of opportunity to perform a specific function against the accused, and if it cannot do that within that limited time frame, then it is barred from doing it at all. Such is how the law in the united states works, to prevent indefinite confinement of a potentially innocent individual while the government attempts to make its case against the accused.

    With the point being that there is no loophole in the acquisition of a firearm. Either the acquisition was through legal channels, or it was through illegal channels. And if the individual attempting to acquire the firearm is a convicted felon, then the acquisition is illegal under any and all circumstances.

    To demonstrate the fact that there is no so-called "loophole" in need of being addressed.

    Statute of limitations.

    It is a hypothetical situation for the sake of the discussion, to demonstrate the point of the discussion that is being made. What is being referred to as a loophole on the part of yourself is not a loophole at all, but rather government refusing to do its own job properly, which is not legitimate grounds for punishing the law abiding citizens.

    In truth it does matter. The laws relating to who can and cannot legally buy a firearm are very specific on the subject. Absent a disqualifying criminal conviction, not a charge but a conviction, there was absolutely no legal basis that could be used to deny the purchase.

    Again, the law is very specific on this subject. Those who have been arrested but not found guilty of a crime can purchase a firearm.

    As has been stated previously, government failing to do its job is not a loophole.

    False. What is being referred to in the article is not a legal acquisition, but rather an act of theft or a straw purchase, both of which are felony offenses. Purchasing a firearm on behalf of an individual who cannot legally pass a background check is known as straw purchasing and it just as illegal as a felon being in possession of a firearm.

    Then there is no further point in yourself engaging in this conversation. Leave the discussion, as there is nothing more to be said on the part of yourself. One who believes government can legally use its own incompetence as a legal justification for infringing upon constitutional rights has no business discussing a matter relating to constitutional rights in the untied states.

    Which is still illegal, and thus not a loophole.
     
  4. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Whatever you need to tell yourself to fall asleep at night. As far as I’m concerned you’ve proven the loophole multiple times. I cited sources, provided examples and you have done nothing. My sources never desired the loophole, just what to call it. As far as I’m concerned you’re just not worth talking to if this is how you’re going to act.
     
  5. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    No so-called "loophole" in the acquisition of firearms exists. The acquisition is either through legal means, or illegal means. Such is the long and the short of the matter in the united states. Regardless of what avenue or method is used by a prohibited individual in attempting to acquire a firearm, that acquisition is a felony, and so is the subsequent possession. There is no standard of law under which a prohibited individual cannot be prosecuted for acquiring a firearm.

    As a citizen of the united states, there is absolutely no excuse on the part of yourself for being both unfamiliar of this fact, and incapable of understanding that it is fact.
     
  6. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    He chose to commit a crime.
     
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  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    No.
    I'm demonstrating that, contrary to your claim, there is no loophole in the law.
     
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  8. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Felons cannot legally obtain or posses a firearm; there is no loophole (in federal law) that allows them to do so.
     
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  9. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    It is always illegal, under federal law, for a felon to buy a gun.
    It is always illegal, under federal law, for a felon to possess
    It is impossible for a felon, under federal law, to legally buy a gun, and thus, there is no loophole to that effect.
     
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  10. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Comprehending answers and honestly applying them to your premise is more important than asking questions.
    Always remember that.
     
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  11. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    It is impossible to legally avoid the background checks mandated by federal law.
    Thus, there is no loophole in the law.
     
  12. EMTdaniel86

    EMTdaniel86 Banned

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    What is the difference in killing 30 people with a AR-15 30rd mag vs killing 30 people with a Glock 22 2x15rd mags?
     
  13. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Yup, even here in blue state NM almost all county sheriffs said they would not enforce the new background check law. Now that gun stores are closed there's no way to legally make a private sale/transfer. Hopefully lots are just ignoring that law, like lefties do immigration law.
     
  14. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    The Columbine massacre was done with 10 round mags.
     
  15. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    C&R licenses have been around for years, nothing new there.
     
  16. EMTdaniel86

    EMTdaniel86 Banned

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    Exactly my point and it goes to show how idiotic gun control can be.
     
  17. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know that C&R licenses have been around for years.
    I mentioned them because not everyone interested in firearms knows about them.
     
  18. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Of interest is the fact that, with every passing year, more and more firearms become available for said status. At present even early AR-15 rifles qualify for relic status, and can be shipped straight to the home address of any individual who holds a valid license. It is only a matter of time before even the first generation Glock semi-automatic handguns are eligible for the same status and treatment.
     
  19. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    For those who are interested, the following is presented.

    http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/ar15serial.html

    It will be admitted, accuracy of serial numbers is not known on the part of myself. But the above information suggests that there are approximately sixteen thousand AR-15 rifles that qualify for curio status due to being produced fifty or more years ago. Meaning there are sixteen thousand semi-automatic rifles on the private market that can legally be shipped directly to the home address of anyone who holds a curio and relic license.
     
  20. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Totally false and demonstrates the ignorance of the person who stated it, most gun shoes are visited by BATF and if they notice someone who has a large collection and doesn't have a collectors FFL they investigate and have been known to confiscate the firearms from unlicensed firearm dealers.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  21. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The "Gun Show Loophole" is one of the biggest lies ever told.
     
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  22. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or are deliberately lying to support their cause.
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  24. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In other words you finally realized you are incorrect and have given up.
     
  25. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But they are useful for harassing the law abiding, which is why so many of them get passed.
     
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