Vorsprung durch Angst

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by LafayetteBis, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the Economist: Vorsprung durch Angst - excerpt:
    So, is Germany pursuing its own kind of "Beggar thy neighbor" policy with (seemingly) it's desire to restrain Consumption by not increasing wages?

    And yet, they are all flooding to the south of France (and perhaps Spain) to get some well-deserved sun for the Summer Vacations.

    Nonetheless, America would be wise to (yet again) learn from Europe as regards the last line above highlighted. Germany has one of the finest Tertiary Level apprenticeship programs (if not the the finest) - envied by many other EU countries.

    And it is free, gratis or for nothing ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  2. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    Germany's trade surplus is due at least in part to the Euro which has locked-in a competitive exchange rate advantage. If the DM were floated it would apptreciate substantially. Similarly the weaker economies cannot devalue, hence the problems in Greece and the others. The Euro was a major mistake.
     
  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you may be among the amazingly few who believe that nonsense.

    The Euro is VERY expensive. What saves Germany (and not France) is the fact that what they produce is tops. There is no quibbling about German quality. In fact, it sets the bar very high for the rest of Europe. And it is the ONLY country in Europe that is not crying about the "horde of Muslim migrants', because it needs manpower badly.

    I recall a news report on the subject in which the Germany TV new report interviewed an African welder in Frankfurt. He spoke rather good German, and explained how he was trained in Germany. (And wont be "goin' home ... !)

    PS: In case anyone was thinking about a European vacation: Your European vacation just got pricier - excerpt:
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  4. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to the rate at which the German currency was locked into the Euro versus the other countries, not the external value of the currency. It gives the Germans an advantage versus the other members of the Euro.
     
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Labor costs in Germany are nonetheless amongst the higher-end group vs the lower-end group. What makes the country money are exports because the quality is good and the product is on-time - despite its higher cost.

    Comparative labor costs from the OECD:
    [​IMG]

    If I wanted to mass-produce a product, I'd go to the Czech Republic where a good many German countries have relocated manufacturing. The above graphic shows why ...
     
  6. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    That's because countries like Czech are poor and poverty allows for exploitation from people from countries like Germany or my own.
     
  7. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Germany has become the engineering standard that Britain once was, they invest in engineers and skilled workers rather than salesman and financiers.
     
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  8. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Have you been to the country recently? If so, then you must not have looked in the right places.

    Poland has recuperated as well. These eastern countries are indeed on the poorer side when compared to the western European countries. But, they were - after all - behind the Iron Curtain until 1991.

    They have nonetheless the primary "sine-qua-non", educated workforces! And now the opening to a far larger market for their produce. After all, the EU is a market-force of some 700 million plus buyers, whereas the US is less than half that number. (Counting Britain in and not out, which has yet to be seen finally.)

    They have come along rather nicely since and not one would go back ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  9. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, and I would also underscore the fact that they have the finest apprenticeship program on earth. If one apprentices in a field, the chances of obtaining a job at the company is around 95% ...

    Commentary pro: Why Germany Is So Much Better at Training Its Workers

    Commentary not-so-pro: Germany’s apprenticeship scheme success may be hard to replicate
     
  10. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    We the People here in America could stand to learn a lot from Germany!

    It is a booming capitalist economy that is well regulated and it supports a Social Democracy where welfare includes Universal Healthcare.

    On top of that Germany is investing in a Green Economy by converting over the Renewable Energy sources.

    The things that America SHOULD be doing is already happening in Germany.

    Hard to argue with success!
     
  11. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't get me started on apprenticeships, I am trying to get my stepson on an mechanics apprenticeship in the UK, I have looked at the syllabuses for the first year, there is nothing I could not teach him in a couple of afternoons working on the motorbike with me(and I have taught him). I swear the first month is about teaching him what end of a screwdriver to use!
     
  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    SELLING POINTS

    I can believe that.

    However, each country has its "selling points". Germany's main money-earner is production. France's is tourism. Now, that does not mean that France does not produce some pretty good products in some really successful markets. (Airbus is a multi-national EU-project and it is doing very well indeed.)

    My point, to which I keep returning time-and-time-again, is that Manufacturing has moved east in the EU - and the west of the EU has to go up-market to find new market-niches. Which, I suspect, its youth has understood since they are very ambitious at obtaining post-secondary degree. (Largely because said degrees are almost "free of charge".)

    It is the middle-aged European that is suffering the most. S/he is well trained, but mostly from the Communist era that was in a free-for-all to catch-up to the industrial prowess of the US.

    And, now, as a result of Age-Change, even the US is in the same fix. In 1991, China's Bamboo Curtain came crashing down. As a consequence, in the West, our cosy Economic World changed forever. Which means what?

    That even the EU has got to watch and protect those in eastern EU that will feel the hit if Chinese products continue to flood markets at the upper levels of manufacturing.

    POST SCRIPTUM

    Even the Chinese are feeling the impact - now a quarter-century later - as a lot of their once low-cost production has fled to even lower-cost countries like Thailand, Burma or Vietnam.

    Will such wonders never cease? No, not likely ...

    PS: And here we are in the US, duped by Donald Dork, following his rainbow of promises to Make America Great Again. America was back down to 5% unemployment (from 11% when Obama was elected) on election day last year!
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  13. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with you, but in the UK we need plumbers, mechanics, electricians etc and always will, these jobs have been completely devalued. So we see jokes about polish plumbers and how they undercut the brits, but the truth is we do not have enough people with the skills.
     
  14. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Unlike colleges and universities which can more or less assume that kids graduating from school have the basics of reading, writing and math behind them there are very few schools that teach "shop" classes.

    Apprenticeships have to assume that the kids don't know one end of a screwdriver from another or that they come in different sizes and shapes. They have to teach the basics of tool safety and handling.

    Not everyone has a handyman for a parent or grandparent.
     
  15. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Those skills cannot be "outsourced" so they make a great deal of sense for kids who are going to do well in college. And let's not kid ourselves either. A motor mechanic, a plumber and an electrician today need to know how to use computers just like everyone else. The difference is that they can probably fix their own when it goes wrong. ;)
     
  16. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    It's also how Germany exploit factories outside of Germany.
    It's cost effective for Volkswagen to build engines outside of Germany but get shipped into Germany and sold off.
    Cheaper labour and running costs with 0 import/export make this happen.
     
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  17. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    How about German jobs in Germany?
    How about ending the Schengen to make sure Czechs aren't building what Germans aren't building?
    How about moving companies from Germany to Czech?
    Why should Germany profit off of the EU's labour anymore?
     
  18. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    The European Dream is the freedom of movement, to better exploit those in weaker economies and is therefore wrong in its immorality.

    Maybe if there was an import tax that German companies who adopt this practise ought to pay to offset profits made over this exploitation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  19. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Better yet, raise a tax in countries to force a duty to be paid when products leave the country they were made in within the Schengen, making the country that builds the engines (in VW's case) see more on top of employment (which is only theirs for their cheaper labour).
     
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  20. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why all the silly questions?

    Do we get all hot 'n bothered about jobs from New England going to the West Coast.

    For simplicity's sake, let's compare the EU with the US. Internal EU comparisons (as you have made above) are of little consequence, if any at all.

    Like comparing Rhode Island with California for economic purposes ...
     
  21. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

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  22. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not just "other European countries".

    Going the rounds in France (particularly on the Internet) is an interview of a black-African in Germany wielding a welding torch and explaining how he works for an aircraft manufacturer. Who taught him? He apprenticed in Germany for two years (having learned the language at the same time) at no cost, and was then hired.

    If MLK came back to life in the US, he'd cry himself a river to see what has happened to his people ...
     
  23. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Germany are too dependent on the EU.
     
  24. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which is why Merkel was far less concerned with the influx of "migrants" than the rest of Europe. Germany can train and use the talent.

    Other parts of Europe have forgot that option mired as it has been for the past five years in an economic downturn of their own making - particularly the ex-SovietBlock countries in the east ...
     
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