Was Elijah a Gentile? Is that why he ate food that wasn't kosher?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by DennisTate, May 22, 2017.

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Was Elijah a Gentile?

  1. Yes, I think he was.

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  2. No way.... he can't be.

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  3. I don't know. My brain hurts!

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  4. Elijah who? What's a Gentile?

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  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mr. George Chuang is certainly one of the most amazingly well informed scholars of Bible prophecy that I have ever found.

    He asks questions in this video that I hadn't even thought of in the past.

    Wow!




    Was Elijah a Gentile? Elijah the Gentile Prophet
     
  2. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    When Abraham was visited by the angels, he served them a meal that wasn't kosher.
     
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  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I had read somewhere that the Prophet Elijah was from the Lost Tribe of Menasseh
    which was one of the ten lost tribes...... which was a lot like being a Gentile
    to most Jews.

    If the Elijah from Menasseh theory is true... then that would
    make Elijah.... a prophet from Samaria / the Northern Kingdom of Israel.

    The raising up of King Jehu son of Nimshi might remind you of
    this event to take place in the life of the final Elijah.


    http://www.britam.org/messiah.html
    MOSHIACH BEN YOSEPH
    by Yair Davidiy




    The Two Messiahs



     
  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is true......
    The Patriarch Abraham was not exactly Jewish......
    he was the Great grandfather of the Patriarch Judah.....
    the grandfather of the Jewish people/ the Tribe of Judah.

    Margot2...... I have gotten the impression from your
    writings that you are capable of writing a book......
    and I have a topic in mind for you that you can begin to
    research by reading post #41 here:


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...s-for-the-role-of-elijah-needed.499830/page-3
     
  5. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Sorry. I am working on a book project now with my brother.
     
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  6. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL!!!

    Judah is not the patriarch of the Jewish people.

    many members of the Tribes of Judah, Levi, Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon "fled" to Judah during the reign of Asa of Judah.

    the southern Kingdom contained members of all 12 tribes.
     
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  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are technically correct, yes.........
    a representative sample of all twelve or thirteen tribes did move to the
    Southern Kingdom of Judah........
    but the bulk of the population was descended from the Patriarch Judah.

    Mr. George Chuang has an intriguing background:


    https://www.revelationendtime.com/about

     
  8. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Kosher didn't begin until Moses' time, which was several hundred years after Abraham.
     
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  9. Deltaboy

    Deltaboy Active Member

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    He was Jewish as far as I can tell from the scriptures at a Prophet to the Northern Kingdom.
     
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  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is what I was taught by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Garner Ted since I was a teenager back in the 1970's.

    But the speaker in the video is onto an important principle though....
    because even in the time of Elijah it seems that the respectable leaders of
    Judah treated even a Prophet from the Northern Kingdom of Israel......
    almost worse than they would treat somebody from Japan.......
    just for one example......

    http://rotter.net/User_files/forum/gil/3ef36e5d7d27655e.html

    Mystery of the Ten Lost Tribes
    Japan - Part 1/3

    by Arimasa Kubo

    ......
     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True.......
    but the Southern Kingdom of Judah had more strict laws
    regarding diet than was commonly practiced in the Northern Kingdom of Israel.

    I could be wrong.... I often am... but I strongly suspect that King Solomon knew people who might just starve to death before eating food brought to them by a raven.........

    Ecclesiastes 7:16

    "Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?"



    Mr. George Chuang also does a highly commendable job of explaining where America fits
    in Bible prophecy:


     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Worldwide Church of God organized a Festival of Tabernacles for
    Charlottetown, P.E.I. for 1979..... and I was there. (I was twenty years old then).

    One of the pastors gave a sermon on I Kings 19 where Elijah had fled from
    Queen Jezebel's armies........
    to Mt. Horeb......
    and once he got there.... G-d asked him two times:

    1Kings 19:9


    And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?"

    Elijah replied with his sales pitch......

    1Ki 19:10


    And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

    Again G-d answered Elijah......
    1Ki 19:13


    And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?"


    I can't remember the name of the pastor... but
    his theory was that Mt. Horeb....... was NOT exactly the
    place where G-d had intended for Elijah to be?!

    The pastor put forward the theory that G-d... didn't always
    get what G-d wanted.........
    due to our having being given genuine freedom of choice to make mistakes......
    and run off to the wrong place....
    at the wrong time........

    The pastor put forward the theory that G-d had put
    Elijah in what could be termed
    "a window of opportunity" where
    the Northern Kingdom of Israel could have been
    brought to repentance.......

    ... but in order for it to happen.....
    Elijah would have to have chosen to
    NOT run away to Mt. Horeb?!

    The pastor's theory was that
    G-d wanted to humble King Ahab and grant him repentance.....
    perhaps grant repentance to....
    or get rid of Queen Jezebel......
    and restore the Northern Kingdom of Israel to Teshuvah / repentance?

    The pastor put forward the theory that G-d had wanted to do
    a miracle for Elijah similar to II Kings chapter 1........
    when Queen Jezebel would send her armies after him.......
    after he had organized the death of the 450 priests of Baal?


    https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2ki/1/1/s_314001


    2Ki 1:10


    And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.


    2Ki 1:11

    Again also he sent unto him another captain of fifty with his fifty. And he answered and said unto him, O man of God, thus hath the king said, Come down quickly.


    And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

    2Ki 1:13


    And he sent again a captain of the third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.

    Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and burnt up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties: therefore let my life now be precious in thy sight.

    2Ki 1:15


    And the angel of the LORD said unto Elijah, Go down with him: be not afraid of him. And he arose, and went down with him unto the king.



    Note: If Elijah had gotten to the place where he felt that he was the only
    true worshipper of G-d left in the Northern Kingdom of Israel..........
    even though there were 7000 others who had not bowed the knee to Baal.......
    but they were hidden........
    could it be that the first two captains of fifty and their fifty..... might have
    participated in the torture of many of Elijah's friends who
    had been executed by Queen Jezebel?

    So.... that fire from heaven to kill 102 soldiers of Queen Jezebel.....
    might have been a lot like the execution of Eichman, Himmler....
    and 100 SS or Gestapo people with them???

    Had G-d wanted to delay the captivity of the Northern Kingdom of Israel?

    Jeremiah 31:9

    They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

    Jer 31:18

    I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.

    Jer 31:20

    Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the LORD.


    Hos 11:8

    How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.


     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2017
  13. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    You know up until 1000 BC people in the ME ate pork and kept black hogs.. The change came because swine used too much water.
     
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  14. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Pigs and hogs are scavengers, and as such are very prone to pick up and carry around diseases, hence their 'uncleanliness' according to Mosiac strictures; in those time periods I wouldn't eat pork or shellfish, either. They were mainly raised for hides, fats, and other 'industrial' uses, with probably a few Greeks and other ethnic groups who might use them for a food source. they were also strongly associated with pagan rituals. they also have strong allegorical usefulness, as seen in the casting out of 'demons'.

    Pigs in the New Testament:

    https://bible.org/seriespage/11-demons-and-pigs-matthew-828-34

    Jews existed as tribes before Moses, but Judaism as a theology came with Moses. They were just run of the mill pagans of the region until then.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2017
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  15. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    They ate pigs all over the ME until 1000 BC.. although their diet was mostly grains and onions. Chickens needed less water and you could eat a whole chicken in one meal
     
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  16. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    There were plenty of swine and cattle around; otherwise there wouldn't be rabbinical regulations on where they could be pastured (steppes) and how far away from Jerusalem tanneries had to locate. All kinds of Gentiles lived in the same area Jews lived in, and of course beyond, and some Gentiles were religiously Jewish and attended the Temple there and in other towns.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
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  17. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Go to archaeology for confirmation of domestic swine .. They were black.
     
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  18. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    The Levites claimed to be descended from Aaron.

    Why is the issue of 'kosher' important to you, Dennis? Just curious.
     
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  19. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Not interested in your amateur 'history'. Go annoy somebody who doesn't know you're a fraud.
     
  20. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    There's no question that Greeks and then Romans ate pork ... Greeks rule started around 333 BC.. Even the excavations at Masada turned up pig bones.. at least according to Israeli archaeologist Yigael Yadim.
     
  21. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Those of you who ever get to travel to to the ME will find pig butchers in the markets of Egypt and Turkey.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/28/morsi-overthrow-egypt-pork-farmers-sales-growth-pigs


    The overthrow of Mohamed Morsi last year did little to help Egypt's economy. But for the butchers and pig breeders of the slums around Cairo, it has been an unexpected fillip.

    Five months ago, pork was so scarce in Cairo that a butcher like Bishoy Samir sold pig meat just twice a month. Now Samir reckons he sells an entire pig's worth of pork every day.

    Five years ago, the Egyptian government culled most of Egypt's pig population, leaving Samir's family with nothing to serve. "It was very rare to find something to cook," Samir says. "We used to work one week on, one week off." But five months ago things started to pick up, and "now we're preparing one pig a day – and others are doing two or three."

    Pork's comeback began slowly after the 2011 revolution that toppled Hosni Mubarak, when some farmers began to breed tiny herds of pigs again and hid them in their basements. But the revival was limited until the fall of Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood last July. Pig farming is still illegal, but here and there smaller-scale breeders say they are now more brazenly rebuilding a process that was decimated in 2009.


    Swine never disappeared from the ME, they have been raised there all along for many millennia. Many of the European breeds are descended from them.
     
  22. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Yep.. Archaeology confirms that they have always been pigs in Egypt .. But, in much of the ME pigs were not a mainstay in the diet because they require a lot of water and forage.
     
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  23. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If... the historical Elijah was either from the Lost Tribes of Israel......
    from the Northern Kingdom of Israel or a Gentile.....
    then this has some interesting implications for the time period
    previous to the raising up of Moshiach ben Ephrayim / Messiah son of Joseph.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_ben_Joseph

    Orthodox Jewish scholar Yair Davidiy does
    an especially interesting job of theorizing where he
    might originate.


    http://www.britam.org/messiah.html

    MOSHIACH BEN YOSEPH
    by Yair Davidiy




    The Two Messiahs



    .....
     
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  24. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    I'm also pretty sure if one is starving and the only food is forbidden Talmudic law and interpretations allow for eating non-kosher food to save ones life. Based on Biblical examples I'm sure in part. On top of that the main reason Hebrews had unclean animals around was to make an income selling them to non-Hebrews for example pigs were a common beast that Romans enjoyed eating and they might even sacrifice them to their gods and goddesses so its fine and clear you can raise, sell and butcher them to sell to non-Hebrews so why wouldn't they coin was coin and feeding just the Roman garrisons would have turned a good profit.
     
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  25. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    When a region goes through protracted periods of warfare hogs and pigs don't fare well compared to other animals; their presence in large numbers fairly indicative of stable regional politics and economics. They don't travel well, compared to cattle, sheep, or goats.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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