Was Google right to sack anti-Diversity engineer?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Latherty, Aug 8, 2017.

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Was Google right to sack anti-Diversity engineer James Danmore?

  1. Yes

    11 vote(s)
    17.2%
  2. No

    46 vote(s)
    71.9%
  3. Don't care

    7 vote(s)
    10.9%
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  1. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    James Damore spoke out against positive discrimination for women and was sacked for it.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/07/business/google-women-engineer-fired-memo.html

    Google says he was sacked for supporting stereotypes of women. I think he was talking about trends in large populations.

    I can't see anywhere that Google, or anyone else, is actually refuting any of his claims with data or research.

    What do you think? A victory for feminism or a retreat into Orwellian thought control?
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
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  2. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    Is anyone able to defend Google's action, even as a devil's advocate?
     
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  3. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Google should be able to fire at will. That said, I don't think he did anything wrong, and there are indications he could be successful in a lawsuit, from multiple angles. California law makes it illegal to fire an employee for organizing with other workers to implement better working conditions.

    Either way, this is a sad day.
     
  4. Your Best Friend

    Your Best Friend Well-Known Member

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    A true feminist wouldn't want to be considered any better or worse than her true provable worth because she was a female.
    Anyone who can praise you undeservedly can also turn around and condemn you, on the same grounds.

    So is Google correct? No. Of course not. Google is a malevolent force for Orwellian thought control, as a progressive lynchpin.
     
  5. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    It's their business, if they think their employee is reflecting bad on the corporation, they can fire him. That said, he was an idiot. Stupid to make stereotypes in this day and age--if he had stuck to the diversity of ideology viewpoint, they couldn't have fired him, but he had to criticize females.
     
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  6. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    I find that CNN coverage has been attrocious. they are claiming that he said no woman can do a tech job! Thats a total misrepresentation!
     
  7. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    He didn't make stereotypes, he observed trends. He was clear that his observations did not apply to any individual.
     
  8. Your Best Friend

    Your Best Friend Well-Known Member

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    CNN jumps to Google's defense with their disingenuous framing of issues? Amazing!
     
  9. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would have fired him just to get the problem out of the building.
     
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  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    According to Trump he should move to where the jobs are so he should learn Chinese.
     
  11. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    This is what liberal free speech looks like in real life

    That and the riots on liberal college campuses around the country
     
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  12. tres borrachos

    tres borrachos Well-Known Member

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    Sure, if they have a corporate policy and he broke it, they were right to fire him. You should be able to employ and retain any employee you want to, and if you think one is a detriment to your business, you should be able to terminate him/her.

    I'm a little fuzzy on the details of how exactly his Echo Chamber manifesto got out to the Google employees. If he shared it, then maybe he should have rethought that.

    I read it, and don't agree with all of his opinions. Women are more prone to anxiety? Women don't care as much about status as men do? Um, no. That's generalization, and it's incorrect. But that alone though isn't reason to terminate him. But if they have a policy against this sort of thing, they were right to do it.
     
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  13. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    They have the right. They were not right in doing so, at least based on their own reasoning. Facts should take priority over ideology or else you are making decisions based a make believe reality.
     
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  14. StanMan

    StanMan Newly Registered

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    I read his ten-page memo and found it underwhelming as far as being controversial. He stresses quite a bit about averages and generalizations. People are attacking him with strawman arguments, saying he thinks a certain gender is bad at this or people of some gender are naturally better at something. No, he was saying IN GENERAL women TEND to be better at certain things and not so good at others but there is plenty of overlap too. Like he points out how men are more prone to want to achieve high status, despite stress, dangers, and other factors. He never says there aren't status-seeking women in the world. It's like if you took a thousand men and a thousand women, and measured them for being high-status-seeking, you would see that one group of a thousand has more than the other. That's a tendency, nothing more. These sort of tendencies, he is saying can help to explain some (and he only says some) of the disparities we see in the workplace in certain occupations. Nobody questions why we have a lot more female elementary teachers than male elementary teachers. It's not sexism. It's a free country and people go where they want, and obviously not a lot of men want to be elementary teachers. Yeah, some do, and that's fine. Women and men ARE different biologically and psychologically even though you can find men with feminine traits (the author even encourages us as a society to be more accepting of "feminine" men) and women with masculine traits.

    People are exaggerating his assertions, which I thought he wrote about very respectfully and diplomatically. The reaction against him is simply an illustration of the problem he points out--that a lot of people in today's world freak out when they hear things to which they disagree or if they fail to abide by ultra-strict, nitpicky, rules of political correctness. They assume the person is "bad" and then exaggerate what they say, what their positions are, to something that they are not. I really thought I was going to read something controversial. I did not. The liberals at Google might have done themselves a favor by taking him seriously and having an honest discussion, rather than run to their safe spaces (figuratively speaking) and then can this guy. But I guess it's easier to just save face and can him, and I can't say I blame them for firing him with all the liberal snowflakes running around California; they might have had a riot on their hands if the inquisition didn't do their job and immediately punish this heretic for his vile heresies.
     
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  15. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The lesson from this incident is that at work you should keep your trap shut about things that are not in your job description.
     
  16. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's what I suspect they did. Very corporate. Not very "old" Google...
     
  17. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. Its despairing...
     
  18. In The Dark

    In The Dark Well-Known Member

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    It's a religion. Questioning the dogma and failing to recite the liturgy makes one a heretic and expulsion is usually the mildest result.

    Science and reason need not be applied here.

    Side note: Is it possible male and female are genetically different? I hear the calls to burn this particular witch through the web.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
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  19. In The Dark

    In The Dark Well-Known Member

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    What a wonderful statist you must be.
     
  20. In The Dark

    In The Dark Well-Known Member

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    Modern academia is conducting a jihad against generalization. This form of empty argumentation against statistical truths is an extension.
     
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  21. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

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    If I'm on the executive team I'm firing him because his actions are hurting productivity. I mostly agree with his premises but work is not the forum for such commentary. The guy is a complete idiot.
     
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  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    If he is a distraction to the company, costs the company money or bad press, and reduces productivity. YES.
    Any employer will fire an employee for such things.
     
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  23. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    He is a thorn in the side of conformist liberalism who thinks for himself
     
  24. navigator2

    navigator2 Banned

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    Companies have the right to fire at will. Free speech doesn't mean speech without consequences. However, it's a double edged sword, and cuts both ways. So the SJW's shouldn't get butthurt when it works against their agenda.
     
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  25. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

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    bullsh!t! His job was likely to develop software not work on fixing what he believes are systemic societal problems. Worse, his terribly short-sighted decision to release his manifesto to colleagues likely hurt his teams' velocity. Inexcusable.
     
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