Was Hillary's loss result of campaigning in error?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Le Chef, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Post deleted, doubled in transit
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  2. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I edited my post while you were answering my unchanged one, but okay I'll address this as well: Sanders did nothing more than represent a slew of liberals that Hilla did not represent, that she went out of her way NOT to represent, and who likely would not have voted for her anyway. You underestimate how hated she is within her own party. She was so despised that waaaay back in 2008 the Dems turned to anyone that might have been a viable alternative to her, even if it meant taking a chance on a completely inexperienced and relatively unknown junior senator. She was that hated.

    A great deal of Bernie's popularity stems from that very same disgust with Hilla within her own party. Frankly, if Bernie didn't exist, someone would have had to invent one - if you catch my drift
     
  3. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Do good reasons justify bad things then? Isn't there another old saying about ends justifying means which is generally used as a means to justify evil?
     
  4. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    I posted this in another thread, but it seems to fit well in here too. :D

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    So Trump is better?
     
  6. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Of course the ends justify the means. What else could justify them?

    If you wake up with your leg amputated you would react differently if the doctor told you it was to save your life than if it was a cure for athlete's foot.

    Revealing the truth about Hillary's corruption is not evil.
     
  7. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Again, Trump is better? Because that was the choice, Hillary or Trump. We Democrats may not have run a perfect candidate but are you really going to try arguing that Trump was the better choice and that until we Dems see that and get on to the business of Making America Great Again we will always lose?
     
  8. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Hillary was more corrupt than Trump?

    Hillary was athete's foot, Trump is gangrene.
     
  9. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    I think Hillary supports modernity to bring us to a future that is purely a figment of progressive's imagination through globalization but will actually reduce the US to a third world country by exporting jobs and technology.

    I don't think the working class in the US, or elsewhere, has detected this "general improvement for all." Instead we see rising inequality, most prominent in the liberal states of NY, CA, MA and CT, btw.

    The Democrats have sold out the working class to the globalists.
     
  10. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    FYI, I don't like trump the person either, I find him to be a brash, loudmouth NY PITA. Which is THE primary reason I didn't vote for him. However, he got elected and its pretty obvious he's not going to change his stripes, so I just deal with it and shrug it off because it is what it is. Personally I see no reason after the fact (elected) to complain about his personality because its not a big fkn surprise.

    I'm optimistic that the economy and tax situation will improve moving forward, not so optimistic about health care because IMO we're only addressing half the problem.
     
  11. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. It is well documented. Trump never had sufficient power to be as corrupt as Hillary, who used her power to benefit her friends to the greatest extent she was able.

    Quite a few people disagree.
     
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  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I don't shrug Trump off because I see him as the most substantial threat to our way of life since WWII

    I very much agree with your last sentence though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  13. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    You're a Trumpista, what can I say?
     
  14. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Nothing. Thanks for playing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  15. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Hillary lost for a combination of four reasons.
    1) She had a seriously flawed campaign strategy.
    2) She was not personally appealing as a human being.
    3) The Russian leaked Emails the significance of which was blown out of proportion by the news media
    4) The totally out of precedent Comey statement.
     
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  16. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    Hillary is a part of the political regime and needs to be taken out. They ALL do. We need to purge the system, and if it takes Donald Trump to do it, then so be it. Consider this a message that you had BETTER listen to.
     
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  17. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I am not. I didn't vote for him.

    You can say why you think Trump is so bad.

    But I was delighted that Hillary lost. She was a much graver threat to the American way of life, at least my conception of it. She was on the side of the Global capitalists and wants to continue the war with Russia that the imperialists have been waging for some two hundred years. How does that help the working class? We know how it helps the ruling class by cutting down on Russian competition.

    How do open boarders help the working class? We know how it helps the ruling class through cheap, exploitable labor.

    How does NAFTA and TPP help the working class? We know how it helps the ruling class by enabling them to offshore working class jobs to countries with cheap, exploitable labor.

    Those were the two issues that got Trump elected. Can you suspend your animosity long enough to understand why the working class voted for Trump?
     
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  18. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    This post intentionally left blank.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  19. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Trumpista"?
    Lol. Immaturity of the left wing is getting more and more frequent.
     
  20. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Still, it is merely a drop of water to the Pacific Ocean compared to the "Right". :salute:
     
  21. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This election caused a massive divide
     
  22. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    False conclusion. I have said many times that my support of Trump begins and ends with his not being Hillary. I've also said many times I'm disappointed that in a country with hundreds of millions to choose from, that those two were what got vomited up. He's NOT who I wanted to run and NOT who I wanted as prez any more than Hilla. But I will say that I absolutely agree with Pycckia's point -

    - that Hilla was far, FAR more corrupt than Trump ever was. BTW, your dismissal of that post -

    - speaks volumes. Earlier in this thread, you said this:

    I actually took you at your word that you really wanted to know what people who either supported Trump or did NOT support Hillary thought. Now look at your responses when someone answers that question: Dismissive and condescending. I can't say it to you enough: Until you actually take the time to listen to what your ideological opponents are saying as to what really motivates them and to hear what their motivations are - as opposed to listening to what you and your political allies SAY their motivations are - then you will NEVER understand why you lost and you will continue to lose. You cannot counter what you refuse to understand. And the fact that you cavalierly dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as a Trump supporter even when they are not - well again, it speaks volumes. Pyc has valid reasons why he thinks Trump won. Can you address those, or is calling him names really all you have?

    I'm not trying to be insulting here; I'm really REALLY trying to get you to understand what you're saying and how your argument isn't working - how it's actually counter-productive.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  23. Nerd of Liberty

    Nerd of Liberty Active Member

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    From my own perspective, it's not that Trump stole the election, but rather his own party did through gerrymandering and making it more difficult for people to vote. Hillary was a bad candidate, there's no denying that, but gerrymandering also played a significant role.

    And let's not forget that Trump won through the electoral college and not the popular vote, which only happened one other time in history, so I guess, in a way, that would feel like Trump "stole" the election.
     
  24. Liberty4Ransom

    Liberty4Ransom Banned

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    We don't elect presidents thru popular votes. Whoever wins the EC, wins the election. That's the way it has been from the beginning.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  25. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Those are the rules. No doubt if the popular vote were decisive Trump's campaign strategy would have been different. No telling what the popular vote would have been if Trump had campaigned in CA.

    And of course gerrymandering is only significant for House elections at the national level. (With the exception of ME.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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