Was Hillary's loss result of campaigning in error?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Le Chef, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Russians mix a bit of truth with fabrication and spin. As does the RW propaganda media. That is the way propaganda works.
     
  2. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What difference does it make whether you knew it or not?
     
  3. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All the Propaganda came from the left anti-Trump. Still didn't work. You're going to claim Fox News is the RW propaganda. Sure. But NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC and all other major networks are left wing mouth pieces.

    Guess what? Still failed. Trump was always going to defeat Hillary.
     
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  4. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry, but "the left" wasn't spinning fabrication that Clinton was too ill be president.
     
  5. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That was your friends from the Russian Times.
     
  6. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The left was spewing bullshit about him being a racist and, well everything under the sun.

    No need to apologize, you don't work for those LW nutjob propaganda pieces. And another reason you don't need to apologize is because their smear campaign failed miserable
     
  7. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nice dodge, but no one was talking about donald's demonstrated racism.
     
  8. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With all due respect Iriemon the quote above is just :blahblah:
    Just as your invoking RT as a diss.


    Ask any M.D.'s you may know if they believe Hillary was healthy enough for the presidency.
    Maybe we see things as signs and what nots, that normies do not see.

    I understand it's the 21st Century and "how I feel about it" is as valid as truth.
    So, please go your way in :peace: with your truth.

    And take the last word as you like.

    Moi
    Non Partisan.
    Sanders first Trump second
    No Swamp Rats
     
  9. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry if you're feeling put off. I said that your post re: Clinton's health sounded like something out of RT. I didn't say it was from RT. I've demonstrated with evidence why I thought that. I stand by my post.
     
  10. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    Here is exactly what Hillary told the Egyptians:

    "We know the attack in Libya had nothing to do with the film. It was a planned attack, not a protest."

    Read the statement slowly. Understand the absoluteness of the words "we know". In the context of this statement, "we" represents the full assessment of the US intelligence community, and Hillary felt absolutely comfortable enough with that assessment to tell the heads of other countries that it was a planned attack. As Congressman Jim Jordan reminded Hillary during congressional testimony "We know," not we think, not it might be, "we know the attack in Libya had nothing to do with the film. It was a planned attack, not a protest." Don't insult thinking people by suggesting that Hillary wasn't 100% certain in her private communications.

    Again, words between heads of state are not chosen lightly. The credibility and integrity, actually the believable word of the US government, is on the line when absolute assessments are issued. The State Department knew exactly what was happening in Benghazi leading up to the attack. There were no protests or demonstrations -- no spontaneous airborne rocks or spray paint. However, there were guns and explosions.

    I take conversations exchanged privately between heads of state much more seriously than dog-and-pony show political reports that were produced without even interviewing everybody who was on the ground. When the Attorney General (Loretta Lynch) and the FBI Director (James Comey) are found to have colluded to intentionally bury Hillary's private server investigation, I lose all faith in whatever "papers" you might want to produce.

    When you talk about propaganda, you might want to examine what the left has been feeding you.
     
  11. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, as I said in my post, "whatever she may have told the Egyptians ... "

    The fact she told the Egyptians one thing at one time does not make whatever she supposedly said to the parents about the video a lie. As I recall, she spoke to the Egyptians shortly after the attack, before the intel was in. She spoke to the parents later.

    You're simply assume that she told the Egyptians the truth to support your desired (and RW propaganda fueled) belief that she lied to the parents.

    But in truth and fact, there was a lot of intel early on saying the attack was motivated by the video, and after thorough investigation, the bipartisan intel committees concluded that the attack was no preplanned, and very likely motived by the video.

    Why would you say that? I linked to the bipartisan reports of the House and Senate Intel Committees that spend months investigating the Benghazi incident.

    Why would you claim they are "the left," or propaganda? Just because they don't comport to what you were told by RW propaganda media? Cognitive dissonance?

    Do you know what "bipartisan" means?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  12. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    You minimize what Hillary told the Egyptians:

    "We know the attack in Libya had nothing to do with the film. It was a planned attack, not a protest."

    This is an absolute statement. A 100% slam dunk statement. In the interests of credibility, if there is any chance there might be conflicting intel, you don't make an absolute statement. Period. Hillary knew what she was saying. The State Department absolutely knew what was happening. In fact they never, at any time, entertained as truth the fantasy of the video. Don't kid yourself otherwise. Like when Obama was caught on a hot mike telling the Russian ambassador he'd have more flexibility after his re-election, you always take private conversations to the bank first. They're not tainted by the stench and corruption of outward politics.

    The problem you have is that the situation in Benghazi is absolutely recognized as a terrorist attack. Hillary said it to the Egyptian PM on 9/12, and then suddenly, after the administration repeatedly fed the narrative of the video to the public, admits on 9/21 that it's a terrorist attack again:

    "Clinton referred to the Benghazi attacks as a “terrorist attack” on Sept. 21, 2012 — two days after Matt Olsen, director of the National Counterterrorism Center, did so at a congressional hearing".

    http://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/the-benghazi-timeline-clinton-edition/

    You have to ask yourself what happened in between. Why did Hillary go from privately communicating that it was absolutely a terrorist attack, to less than 48 hours later telling the families of the dead it was absolutely triggered by an Internet video??

    That's the only question that should be explored based on the real facts. The problem is that you won't like the inescapable conclusions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  13. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    No, she is way ahead of Trump by points alone.

    Sniper fir, being named after Edmund Hillary, blaming a video she knew wasn't responsible for killing the embassy personnel.

    And those are just a few of her more blatant lies.

    There are many more.
     
  14. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    Is that the dame thing that MSM does in all of its broadcasts? Certainly seems so.
     
  15. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In my experience, it is not accurate to say that is the case in all MSM broadcasts. If that is your perception, I would say it indicates you need to consider diversifying your information sources from just RW propaganda outlets.
     
  16. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, there's a total of 3 you've claimed. You only have 90 more to catch up to the list of donald's lies. Over just a 12 month period.

    Trump lies over one year 8/1/16 to 7/31/17

    [1]Amazon has a "no-tax monopoly."

    CNN’s ratings are "way down."

    "This Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story. It's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should've won."

    Before the presidential campaign, "I didn't know Steve (Bannon)."

    Terrorism and terrorist attacks in the United States and Europe have "gotten to a point where it's not even being reported."

    "If Russia, or some other entity, was hacking, why did the White House wait so long to act? Why did they only complain after Hillary lost?"

    There was "serious voter fraud" in Virginia.

    There was "serious voter fraud" in New Hampshire.

    There was "serious voter fraud" in California.

    Says he "won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally."

    Says that at a campaign rally President Barack Obama "spent so much time screaming at a protester, and frankly it was a disgrace."

    Says Hillary Clinton "wants to let people just pour in. You could have 650 million people pour in and we do nothing about it. Think of it. That’s what could happen. You triple the size of our country in one week."

    "Wikileaks also shows how John Podesta rigged the polls by oversampling Democrats, a voter suppression technique."

    When Hillary Clinton "ran the State Department, $6 billion was missing. How do you miss $6 billion? You ran the State Department, $6 billion was either stolen — they don't know."

    "It’s possible that non-citizen voters were responsible for Obama’s 2008 victory in North Carolina."

    "Of course, there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day."

    "We don't have any" chess grandmasters in the United States.

    Says he won the second debate with Hillary Clinton "in a landslide" in "every poll."

    Says a tweet he sent out "wasn’t saying, ‘check out a sex tape.’ It was just ‘take a look at" the background of Alicia Machado.

    “Our African-American communities are absolutely in the worst shape they've ever been in before. Ever. Ever. Ever."

    Says a tweet he sent out "wasn’t saying, ‘check out a sex tape.’ It was just ‘take a look at" the background of Alicia Machado.

    "I finished" the controversy about where President Barack Obama was born.

    “My opponent has no child care plan."

    Says Hillary Clinton has "not answered a single question" about her immigration plan.

    The number of illegal immigrants "could be 3 million. It could be 30 million."
    Donald Trump is wrong that 'inner-city crime is reaching record levels'

    Says the U.S. election system is "rigged."

    Says Barack Obama "founded ISIS. I would say the co-founder would be crooked Hillary Clinton."

    "Hillary Clinton says she wants to, ‘raise taxes on the middle class.’ "

    "I’m beating (Kelly Ayotte) in the polls by a lot."

    "We have a fire marshal that said, 'Oh we can't allow more people’ ... And the reason they won't let them in is because they don't know what the hell they're doing."


    All in the year from Aug 1, 2015 though July 31, 2017, all:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/rulings/pants-fire/?page=1

    +++

    "We've achieved a historic increase in defense spending to get our troops the support they so richly deserve."

    During the Nixon Watergate investigation, "out of courtesy, the FBI started reporting to the Department of Justice. But there was nothing official."

    "We’ve signed more bills -- and I’m talking about through the legislature -- than any president ever."

    Says his job approval poll numbers are "not bad" relative to other presidents at this point in his presidency.

    Says John Podesta "refused to give the DNC server to the FBI and the CIA. Disgraceful!"

    "We're pretty much at the 50 percent mark" on deportations of MS-13 gang members.

    "China will be allowed to build hundreds of additional coal plants. So we can’t build the plants, but they can, according to this (Paris) agreement."

    "At least 7 dead and 48 wounded in terror attack and Mayor of London says there is ‘no reason to be alarmed!’ "

    Deals struck on his first foreign trip as president made and saved "millions of jobs."

    "Dems want billions to go to Insurance Companies to bail out donors"

    "No administration has accomplished more in the first 90 days."

    "All pipelines that are coming into this country from now on has to be American steel."

    "The weak illegal immigration policies of the Obama Admin. allowed bad MS 13 gangs to form in cities across U.S. We are removing them fast!"

    "When you look for a job, you can't find it and you give up. You are now considered statistically employed."

    "The NSA and FBI tell Congress that Russia did not influence electoral process."

    "Germany owes ... vast sums of money to NATO & the United States must be paid more for the powerful, and very expensive, defense it provides to Germany!"

    Says "the New York Times wrote about" Barack Obama wiretapping Donald Trump during the election.

    "Look at what’s happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this? Sweden. They took in large numbers. They’re having problems like they never thought possible."

    "While on FAKE NEWS @CNN, Bernie Sanders was cut off for using the term fake news to describe the network. They said technical difficulties!"

    Says CNN’s Chris Cuomo "never asked" Sen. Richard Blumenthal about Blumenthal's misstatements on his own service in Vietnam.

    "The murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years."

    Says "109 people out of hundreds of thousands of travelers" were affected by the immigration executive order.

    "If you were a Muslim, you could come in, if you were a Christian, it was impossible."

    "Here in Philadelphia murder has been steady — I mean — just terribly increasing."

    "The media ... sort of made it sound like I had a feud with the intelligence community."

    Americans don't "care at all" about Donald Trump's tax returns.

    "We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College."

    "The @nytimes sent a letter to their subscribers apologizing for their BAD coverage of me."

    The @nytimes states today that DJT believes ‘more countries should acquire nuclear weapons.’ How dishonest are they. I never said this!"

    Beyonce and Jay Z, I like them, I like them ... I get bigger crowds than they do. It's true. I get far bigger crowds."

    "I have tremendous support from women."

    The media "never show crowds."

    "Twitter, Google and Facebook are burying the FBI criminal investigation of Clinton. Very dishonest media!"

    Says Ohio’s I-X Center "used to be a great plant," but "thousands of people of worked here, and they left" when their jobs were moved overseas.

    "14 percent of noncitizens are registered to vote."

    The stories from women saying he groped or forced himself on them "largely have been debunked."

    Says Hillary Clinton is "wrong" to say he mocked a disabled reporter.

    Says Hillary Clinton was "let off the hook" for her email scandal while Gen. David Petraeus had his life "destroyed for doing far, far less."

    "I've gotten to see the commercials that they did on you. And I've gotten to see some of the most vicious commercials I've ever seen of Michelle Obama talking about you, Hillary."

    Says Sidney Blumenthal wrote that the Benghazi attack was "almost certainly preventable. Clinton was in charge of the State Department, and it failed to protect U.S. personnel and an American consulate in Libya."

    Says after Hillary Clinton helped a man accused of raping a 12-year-old, "she's seen laughing on two separate occasions, laughing at the girl who was raped."

    Says Hillary Clinton "wants to go to a single-payer plan" for health care

    Says he has "a fiduciary responsibility to his business, his family and his employees to pay no more tax than legally required."

    "In her campaign for president, Hillary Clinton has received $100 million in contributions from Wall Street and hedge funds."

    Says to Hillary Clinton, "You heard what I said about (the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal), and all of a sudden you were against it."

    "NATO is opening up a major terror division. ... I'm sure I'm not going to get credit for it, but that was largely because of what I was saying and my criticism of NATO."

    Says "Hillary Clinton's plan would bring in 620,000 refugees in her first term, alone, with no effective way to screen or vet them. Her plan would cost $400 billion in terms of lifetime welfare and entitlement costs."

    Says Hillary Clinton’s energy agenda "will cost the U.S. economy over $5 trillion"

    Says top Clinton advisers "were pressing" birther movement stories "very hard."

    "I did not support the war in Iraq … The record shows that I’m right."

    "You will learn more about Donald Trump by going down to the Federal Elections" to see the financial disclosure form than by looking at tax returns.

    "I never said" that Muslims would be subject to profiling under his policies.

    "Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy."

    "Our veterans, in many cases, are being treated worse than illegal immigrants."

    "I was totally against the war in Iraq."

    "I released the most extensive financial review of anybody in the history of politics. … You don't learn much in a tax return."

    As governor, Tim Kaine "oversaw a huge increase in illegal immigration, a tremendous increase."

    Says Hillary Clinton "wants to raise taxes on African-American owned businesses to as much as nearly 50 percent more than they're paying now."

    Says Hillary Clinton is "proposing to print instant work permits for millions of illegal immigrants to come in and take everybody's jobs, including low-income African-Americans."

    "I had previously said that NATO was obsolete because it failed to deal adequately with terrorism. Since my comments, they have changed their policy and now have a new division focused on terror threats."

    "The Obama-Clinton war on coal has cost Michigan over 50,000 jobs."

    Says he saw videotape "of the people taking the money off the plane" to pay ransom to Iran for hostages.

    "Youth unemployment is through the roof."


    All in the year from Aug 1, 2016 to July 31, 2017, all:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/?page=1
    Trump lies over one year 10/1/15 to 10/1/16
     
  17. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    If you are going to argue Hilary's virtue, you will be more productive arguing that the sky is purple polka dots, and the sun did not rise this morning.
     
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  18. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are correct, I don't expect to have much productivity with closed minded conservatives whose worldview is based on RW propaganda media and who ignore all contrary evidence, regardless of how solid.

    But every once in a while one will consider the truth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  19. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    Your reply could just as easily read:

    You are correct, I don't expect to have much productivity with closed minded leftist/liberals whose worldview is based on LW propaganda media and who ignore all contrary evidence, regardless of how solid.

    But every once in a while one will consider the truth.


    Actually, I could argue this version is more accurate. Certainly based on your response to Hillary's Benghazi statements. BTW, if your version of events is correct, that would have to mean Hillary was incompetent in the execution of her job -- irresponsibly giving out information that hadn't been vetted properly.

    So what would be more damning. Hillary's glaring incompetence as SOS, or her well worn track record of public dishonesty??
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  20. gc17

    gc17 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Finally you get it. It doesn't matter, by the way you brought up the source. Funny you say that, "What difference does it make" , Hildi teach you that?.
     
  21. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    Or perhaps you should pay attention to all of the MSM and their broadcasts. If you are honest you will have to admit that this is the case.
     
  22. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    Read her latest book, if you can stomach it, and it will provide a more complete list. Open your mind and become educated on the subject.
     
  23. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well ...

    ...considering you've been essentially saying the same thing in this thread - hmm, how many times do you keep going back to the "Who cares?" well, Andrew? I just thought I'd quote your posts here while waiting for dinner to cook, but for someone who says he doesn't care, you sure do seem to care a lot based on the number of posts you made in this thread. I had no idea you'd said the same thing so many times and to use your own words, you're beating a dead horse here.

    At some point you're gonna have to accept that just because YOU don't care, others do. Among those that care is Hillary Rodham Clinton herself, who seems to be making explaining why she lost into a cottage industry while the rest of us wish she would fade into obscurity like the cellulite goddess she is. And if you don't care, there's no reason to clutter up a thread saying you don't.

    Although maybe you could explain to us here why you posted so many times in a thread where you don't care about the topic.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
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  24. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    No, they're mistakes, or maybe they're the normal ************ anyone does. If your kid tried to change a grade on his report card would you want him sent to reform school? (OK, bad example as you probably would, but the reasonable readers here will see what I mean.)

    Now cheating enough people out of their money that you have to pay 25 MILLION dollars just to make them shut up, yeh, that might just indicate a larcenous streak, to most but the God-Emperor's Worshipful Acolytes.
     
  25. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    So you call her lies just mistakes. All here can see how your mind works.

    BTW, personal insults will get you reported.
     

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