Was Hillary's loss result of campaigning in error?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Le Chef, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Donor

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    The above post is Exhibit A as to both why the Dems lost and why it might be awhile before they ever win. We've had several threads here regarding Hilla blaming everything from Putin to the New York Times to Netflix for her loss, anyone and anything except Hilla herself. In many ways she's like my grifter brother-in-law who has no problem saying he's sorry but never takes the next step and says he's responsible. Hilla lost because too many people disagreed with the above statement; that Hilla was indeed worse than Trump.

    The problem wasn't that Trump wasn't that good - I'll easily admit that and have on many occasions. But Hilla was magnitudes worse. I'm somewhat amazed that people forget how hated she was in previous runs, her sheer arrogance in the way she carried herself which expressed itself in her and her sycophants feeling in 2008 that her coronation was an inevitability. People hated her so much that they were looking for anyone to run against her that they could vote for. On paper, Obama shouldn't have had a chance against her and yet he won the nom against her pretty handily. Fast-forward to 2016 where you see people who like Trump and people who hate him. But Hilla, there's people who hate her - and that's it.

    Another thing that's ignored by Hilla Drones is that she has always, ALWAYS represented the establishment that people do not like, and always at the worst possible moment. I mean, look HERE at this analysis by CBS regarding the fight for the nom in 2008 between Hilla and Obama: "Voters clearly wanted a new approach to deal with these problems. A majority (51 percent), said they wanted a candidate who could bring about change, as opposed to 23 percent who preferred a candidate with experience. Fourteen percent wanted a candidate who cares about people like them, and 9 percent wanted a candidate who would win in November. Obama was the choice among voters who sought change, while Clinton was the choice among voters who sought experience..." And that scenario repeated itself again in 2016.

    It's like she never learns.
     
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  2. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its not that she didn't know-she didn't care.

    And democrats dutifully got in line because it was her turn.
     
  3. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's kind of hard to know for sure which it was. She was so besotted, drunk, and self-medicated during most of the campaign that an argument can be made that she didn't know because she was unable to.



    But you did touch upon something else: The "It's My Turn" campaign she ran. That almost never works nowadays. It didn't work for McCain and it didn't work for Dole. Probably a few more out there but when the party hands someone the nod just because they fell the guy deserves it that year, the hoi polloi almost never respond in kind.
     
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  4. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Her major fall and concussion resulting in an intracrancial blood clot and double vision is well known.
    Less well know is Hillary has a history of fall and concussions.

    The question no body asks is why does Hillary fall so much?
    Musculo-Skeletal?
    Neurological?
    Cardiovascular?
    Metabolic?
    etc.

    With her tendency towards becoming "puffy" my guess is Heart Failure.
    Regardless of her reasons for falling, apparently she is not physically fit for the presidency.
    Nor was she at the time of her nomination.

    And I :ignore: still maintain, :blahblah: Hillary's loss was Hillary. Not the Russians, or Comey, or the DNC.
    Hillary like Romney made the mistake of writing off too many voters and concentrating on hers'.
    Romney should have worked the Welfare vote.
    Hillary should have worked the Hearland vote.

    Moi :oldman:

    r > g

    TaxCanada.jpg
    Finance :flagus: Healthcare
     
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  5. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying the electorate wanted change, and didn't care at all about what kind of change it was?
     
  6. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More or less that was the case. It will be the case when the GOP gets ground down in 2020 too.
     
  7. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm saying that it was one of several reasons why she lost. IMHO it's a tie between her complete inability to run a campaign and the fact that no one likes her that kept her from the win - I'd put the voters wanting change at third or fourth place personally, with her deplorables comment around there as well.

    I've said it elsewhere, she ought to have won. She had the press, Hollywood, the elites, most of the rich, all the major newspapers, all the talking heads, and the experience, such as it was, on her side. But she underestimated how much people really don't like her.
     
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  8. osbornterry

    osbornterry Well-Known Member

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    So you are an outsider looking in. There are some brits on this site too.

    None of you live in the US so you only know what you hear on BBC, CNN, MSNBC and RT and other media with an anti-Trump agenda.

    In truth, unless you live in a country you have no way of knowing what happens on the ground any more than we would know what happens on the ground in London, or Moscow.

    In addition to expounding on subjects they know nothing about , brits like to rhyme things so I combined the two to came up with "Nit Wit Brit Crits".

    That sums them up in a few words.

    You I will guess are a " Fussin' Russian Who's Not Blushin'
     
  9. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Due to her blood clots, she's almost certainly on blood thinners.

    All of that falling, outside of whatever else is going on could be catastrophic for her.
     
  10. Troianii

    Troianii Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It very well can be. IMHO, rallies rarely win over voters. They energize supporters. There were massive rallies for Obama and Trump, and I don't recall ever hearing someone say they were going to go to the rally to hear the candidate out and weigh their options - anyone I know who went to a rally was a supporter. But there seems to be some correlation between these rallies and base turnout. There is also, of course, some correlation between the rallies and fundraising, but in this age with superdonors, rallies seem to have a somewhat limited effect on donations.
     
  11. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I'm an American born and bred, can you PLEASE tell me what in these last few posts gave you the impression I was not? I've had other posters say that and it really strikes me as strange. Do you really think anyone not worshipping at the feet of the God-Emperor is a furriner or what?
     
  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Is there anyone even possibly more unlikeable than Trump? The man is in the dictionary next to the phrase "petty, mean and vindictive". Fer crissake he went to a ROAST and was STILL just mean rather than mean and funny.
     
  13. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks Berniebots. If Hillary had won we would be at war with Russia right now.
     
  14. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    The Clinton obsessives prefer to fantasize that, if the candidate that 2.9 million Americans had preferred had won, America would be even worse off than it is under Trumpery - just as Clinton enthusiasts are free to imagine how much better her presidency would had been for the US.

    Yes, Trump's approval numbers have been the worst ever at each stage of his tenure, but there is nothing to stop anyone from pretending that Clinton's would be trailing the ebola virus by double digits.

    Such is the allure of idle speculation, besides which such self-serving musing affords a desperately-needed diversion for the cheerleaders of their hapless messiah.

    They love their mendacious narcissist almost as much as he loves himself, and are very, very upset that the Republican Senate and House are impotent in passing any piece of major legislation, and the Trump Justice Department's Special Counsel, and various Republican-run congressional investigative committees, seem so concerned about Putin's perverting a US election to place Trump where he wants him.

    Naturally, for hardcore Trumpies, an alternative reality in which Clinton surrenders international primacy and makes the United States into a pariah nation, joining Syria's Assad in spurning the global community, is far more "PC."
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  15. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    Hillary was 6% ahead for most of the election and was so just days before the election however at the end it all fell apart. She won the election by 3 million votes but lost the election because she lost those three states by tiny margins. I guess if she had visited those areas more instead of trying to go into Trump territory to solidify her win she might be president today. Also if she had payed by the rules when secretary of state and beyond her approval wouldn't have slipped like this placing Trump within striking distance of her.
     
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  16. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, Hillary is more unlikeable than Trump. Infinitely. But to be honest, I never really disliked Trump in the first place. Many reasons:

    1) He is a do-er in business. You think it's easy building a real estate empire, in NYC, even with a substantial inheritance? Try it. Do snow-cone stands if you like. Whatever the product or service, it's always, always hard. Moreover, while some of his businesses have failed, yes, as do many, many other startups, he picks himself up and goes back into the arena to get himself beat up, risking his fortune in the process. I admire and respect him for it.

    2) I don't think that Trump wants to control me in any way. He wants less power in D.C. and more at the state level. That's more democratic than what we have now. He hates regulation. What freedom-loving person really likes regulations? With Hillary Clinton and people like her, it's exactly the reverse.

    Trump and I would never have been personal friends for several reasons. But I don't want a "friend" in the white house. I want an inspirational leader who make me proud to be an American. Trump satisfies, though I actually voted for Johnson. :flagus:
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  17. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I remember those days, and thought at the time -- and moreso the morning after the election -- that her lead in the polls was based in part on spineless boomers who want to seem progressive when asked if they believe in equality, feminism, class warfare, and all the rest, but who deep down believe that progressivism is close to leftism which is close to enforced collectivism, which is poison to the American spirit, and which nobody really likes. Except the controllers, of course.

    On edit, I am reminded of a John Stossel interview with Hillary:

    Our well-intended rules often create nasty, unintended consequences.

    For example, after Western media complained that Bangladeshi workers were abused in "sweatshops," many of those businesses closed. "Good!" said the media. "We stopped the abuse!" But then Oxfam researchers discovered that many of those now unemployed workers were begging for food on the streets. Some became prostitutes.

    Clinton replied, "I heard about that study, but most regulation improves living conditions: zoning rules, affirmative action, licensing, minimum wage ... "

    I responded, "Well, I'm a libertarian and ... "

    "I know who you are!" she interrupted. We were off. I give her credit: She argued with me for half an hour. Finally, she'd had enough. She just ignored me for the rest of the meal.

    Clinton's wish to regulate workers' sleeping arrangements is a symptom of "lawyers' disease." Like most politicians, she assumes problems are best solved with new rules. She doesn't notice that most new rules create new problems. Worse problems. Problems that often take away opportunity altogether.

    I don't want to live in a shipping container. But when politicians say "no one" may, they prevent desperate people from improving their lives.

     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  18. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Donor

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    I can't tell you why, but I too have had the feeling you were a foreigner. Maybe it's the name, I dunno.

    But one thing that did strike me as worthy of a comment was your last sentence. There's quite a few Trump supporters in my family, and none of them have even come close to thinking of Trump as anything other than just some guy somewhere who represents him. I'll say it again, the people who call Trump supporters cultists and think of them as worshiping some kind of God-Emperor are projecting because we've seen it before and it looks like this. While I'm sure there's maybe a half-dozen people out there who think Trump is God, it's nothing compared to what we got under Obama.

    Certainly there are, and Hillary is one of them. Consider this: that your dislike of Trump is preventing you from seeing how truly awful Hilla is as a person herself. She was hated while still first lady of Arkansas, and it went downhill from there. perhaps you should consider that it was Hillary who did THIS or that she is known by many sources as acting like THIS?

    Yeah, that hardcore Trumpies line won't work for me. IMHO if Hilla won, she'd be screwing up as worse as Trump but in different ways, the only real difference would be her sycophants in the press covering for her.
     
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  19. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    That is the fantasy of many Clinton obsessives. The dismal reality is Trump.
     
  20. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Donor

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    Maybe I'm missing something, but in a thread titled

    Was Hillary's loss result of campaign in error?

    it seems to me that we're less likely to talk about the reality of Trump (as we already have enough threads elsewhere about that) and more likely to discuss why Hillary failed. And in that regard, it is pertinent to note that people considered the ways she would screw up vs. the ways Donald would, and considered him the lesser of two evils.
     

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